Tuning / performance update

[Pullstarter]

Smip is correct, the internals of the Tig manual (apart from the ratios) are the same as the R32, therefore strong as buggery.

[Pullstarter]

Remember, if the manufacturer could get 33% more power for "free" they would.

What a load of BS!! They DO get it for free!! The Tig 125 and 147 are IDENTICAL apart from software. They do this so they can make more MONEY!! It's the same with 103 and 125 TDI, identical engines just different software, more power=more expensive and it doesn't cost the manufacturer a cent! Just a different software profile. Sorry for going off guys but there really is some serious amounts of misinformation going on here!!

[DieselTig]

What a load of BS!! They DO get it for free!! The Tig 125 and 147 are IDENTICAL apart from software. They do this so they can make more MONEY!! It's the same with 103 and 125 TDI, identical engines just different software, more power=more expensive and it doesn't cost the manufacturer a cent! Just a different software profile. Sorry for going off guys but there really is some serious amounts of misinformation going on here!!

Bottom line is that there are reputable companies out there that offer the remaping with modest increases in power and torque and we have the choice to use them or not. My choice is to go with Oettinger when I get around to it. The risk is minimum unless the Tig goes thru some crazy terrain exercises which I am not going to do anyway, my Xtrail does some of that.

[Transporter]

What a load of BS!! They DO get it for free!! The Tig 125 and 147 are IDENTICAL apart from software. They do this so they can make more MONEY!! It's the same with 103 and 125 TDI, identical engines just different software, more power=more expensive and it doesn't cost the manufacturer a cent! Just a different software profile. Sorry for going off guys but there really is some serious amounts of misinformation going on here!!

Indeed. Because 103TDI and 125TDI are internally different.
More power=more heath, so VW revised the 125TDI engine to handle that extra power and the heat. Different pistons, conrods, cylinder head and the head gasket just to name a few.

[Arctra]

There's some really serious bull***** going on here!! Have all these anti-chip people forgotten that the drivetrain in our petrol Tigs is the EXACT same drivetrain hardware used in the R32?!?!?!?!

Hey Pullstarter.

It's great that you're passionate about your chipping and comfortable with your Tigs ability to handle it. I am a risk averse type that likes to make an informed decision. I'm not anti-chipping, not at all, because I am actually very interested in getting it done. But I would like to get some assurance that I'm not unnecessarily puitting the longevity of my Tig at risk.

Far from being BS, there is some valid information and arguments going on here. Just because a piece of info doesn't match your exact circumstance doesn't mean it's BS... it's just not relevant to your situation.

Do you hear of any of them blowing gearboxes or diffs etc?? They have standard 184kw and handle it with ease and I dare say people drive R32s a damn sight harder than we drive our Tigs!

To be honest, I wasn't aware that the Tigs drivetrain is "exactly" the same as the R32's. Is the Tigs weight the same? Does the R32 come with a Tiptronic box like mine? What's teh max torque of the R32 compared with my TDI? All of those variables factor into whether the increased power from the chipping can be handled by the Tig or not.

As Clip says, if you want a hardcore 4wd you would NEVER buy an SUV, you'd get a Landcruiser/Patrol/Pajero etc

Agreed. But VW do offer an off-road pack, and it is marketed as an Off-roader. Where does one draw the line between "casual off-roading with the occassional challenging obsticle that requires full power" and "hard core off roader"?

I think a lot of people here need to realise that different people want different things from their cars, if you're worried about chipping DON'T DO IT. If you've done your homework and are prepared to take the VERY small risk that something may go wrong with the car as a result of chipping then you go in with full knowledge of this.

I couldn't agree with the sentiment of needing to realise different people wanting different things, and that you should do your homework before chipping. Amusingly, that is what I (and I suspect others) am seeking to do on this thread.

I guess one of the problems that might be causing the perception of FUD is the application of information to the wrong set of variables. Maybe we could set those variables out, and then those that have some experience and evidence to support their opinions can contribute on their opinions of chipping. If reps from the major chipping companies could give feedback that would be great (although obviously objectivity and keeping to your own products would be appreciated)

- What is your engine cabaple of in max KW and max Torque? (specific to each model - 125 and 147 Petrols, and 109 Deisel)
- What is your gearbox cabale of? (specific to each model - 125 and 147 Petrols, and 109 Deisel)
- What is the rest of the drivetrain (Diff's, Haldex, who knows what else) capable of?
- How do you intend using your Tig? (street racer, family SUV, off-roader, regular commuter, etc)
- How long do you intend keeping your Tig? (presumably the longer you want to keep it, the longer you want it to last before making major replacements and repairs that might result for the extra powers stress on the vehicle)
- How much time and money are you willing to spend on regular preventative maintenance of the vehicle to ensure the extra power does not compromise the longevity of the Tig?
- What is your level of technical knowledge on the subject of chipping, the limitations and advantages of it, and your ability to identify potential issues that should be addressed before they damage any part of the Tig?

I'm sure there are other variables too, but those are off the top of my head.

To give you an idea of where I am coming from with my questions and concerns:
- I have the TDI 109kW and know it's cabale of at least 125kw with an extra 40NM of torque without compromising the engine. It may be capable of more though?
- I have the auto gearbox and am really not sure what it is capable of handling. As I currently understand it, the TDI has been limited to 109kW to prevent my auto box from overheating. I would love some more detail on what it's capable of though.
- It seems the rest of the drivetrain is capable of handling any upgrade I am likely to throw at it, though I'm not sure of the longer term effects. For 90% of what I'll use it for it should be fine though.
- I mainly use my Tig for communiting to work during the week where I am a bit of a street light drag racer. On the weekends I tend to do longer drives, mainly on paved roads, but I am intending on doing more easy/medium to medium off-roading once I am comfortable with what the Tig can handle.
- This is my first brand new vehicle so I am naturally a little more protective of it. I intend keeping it longer term so the longevity of the vehicle is pretty important to me.
- I'm unlikely to have a hell of a lot of time and money to spend on maintenance of the vehicle so I would rather have the chipping operate within the parameters of what it can handle rather that have it right on the bleeding edge where the extra stresses result in additional costs from maintenance.
- I am a newbie at the chipping game so am very much in an information gathering phase. I learned the hard way when overclocking my PC's that it's possible to push something way beyond what the manufacturer recommends, but something has to give, and that's usually longevity. There is however a sweet spot that you can achieve that gets more performance than the manufacturer recommends without compromisinging the entegrity of the components. That's the sweet spot I am trying to identify with chipping the Tig before I take the leap.

[DieselTig]

Indeed. Because 103TDI and 125TDI are internally different.
More power=more heath, so VW revised the 125TDI engine to handle that extra power and the heat. Different pistons, conrods, cylinder head and the head gasket just to name a few.

That is exactly what the gentleman from Turbo Engineering told me, the 103 and 125 tdi are different engines and the main reason is the overheating. He also stipulated that they do the changes to ecu program and test it on the 4wd dynamometer to make sure the max operating temperatures engine, exhaust and gearbox are maintained within design parameters. He did mention that you can push it a lot higher but the overheating is going to be the problem.

[Sharkie]

Umm, Actra, .... the TDi Tiguan makes 103kw not 109kw .....

Some general info here:

The R32 makes 320Nm @ 2500-3000rmin & 184kw @ 6300rmin

The R32, Tiguan, Passat 4Motion, Audi A3 Quattro, Audi S3, Audi TT Quattro all use the same drivetrain from a 4Motion perspective with only minor differences for its Haldex ECU, gear ratios and the gearboxes hooked up to it.

The TDi makes 320Nm from 1750rmin-2500rmin .... it is very far from a flat torque curve as it climbs very steeply to that point and drops quite steeply from 2500 onwards. It is only flat for 750rmin and far from ideal.

The TSi Tiguans makes 280Nm from 1700rmin - 5000rmin ... which is flat torque powerband of 3300rmin which is amazing. At 1700rmin and from 3000rmin onwards it makes more torque than the TDi. Have a look at the torque curves ...... At crawling speed over obstacles off-road the TSI will have more torque delivered ......

The TDi's strenghts are its economy and lazy revving character not its torque advantage ...... The TDIs gear ratios are chosen to complement this, but in all acceleration tests, including in-gear overtaking it lags far behind the TSIs.

The ONLY advantage a TDI has over a TSI is economy ....

Its lazy revving nature and economy appeals to a wide demographic which is great but never list its torque as a strenght compare to the TSis, its actually at a disadvantage if you look it closely from a technical perspective.

SO ....

to get back to tuning, all the research by the respected tuning companies have found that the most optimal result from a performance and reliability perspective for the 2.0TSis and 2.0TDis are:

103kw TDI = 125kw/370NM
125/147kw TSI = 190kw/400NM

and these figures are achieved without endangering reliability and longetivity of the drivetrains involved. You could drive all of them 200,000km provided you follow the service schedules and never experience a problem.

It is when you go beyond these that you start exposing yourself to other potential issues. Do so only if you are well informed and prepared to accept any consequences.

I'd recomend anybody chipping their Tiguans as it will enhance the driving experience of all the models ... TDIs and TSIs alike without endangering anything.

[Arctra]

That is exactly what the gentleman from Turbo Engineering told me, the 103 and 125 tdi are different engines and the main reason is the overheating. He also stipulated that they do the changes to ecu program and test it on the 4wd dynamometer to make sure the max operating temperatures engine, exhaust and gearbox are maintained within design parameters. He did mention that you can push it a lot higher but the overheating is going to be the problem.

Interesting. See, I would have thought the 103TDI and 125TDI would have been pretty much the same parts (as it sounds the 125 and 147 petrols seem to be), but if the 125TDI has been uprated then it makes sense it's capable of more.

I don't suppose your chippers would be willing to say what the TDI's auto box is capable of?

[DieselTig]

Sharkie, I can sense a bit bias against diesels here. Each to their own I guess.

[Sharkie]

Sharkie, I can sense a bit bias against diesels here. Each to their own I guess.

Not at all, I'm actually trying to correct bias ..... proponents of the TDI VW's need to be realistic of its place and strengths and weakness. Its good but not to the extent it's generally made out to be.

BTW ... I have a T/Diesel DualCab 4WD as well .... a real 4WD .... in addition to 2 SUVs now (for the moment) .... .... and I won't ever take the SUVs to the same places as I do the DualCab.

Edit ...
AND ... I'd be far more comfortable taking the "other" SUV on to a beach for instance than any Tiguan. Its has permanent 50:50 AWD and weighs 300kg less .... and in its current form is no slower than a stock TSI Tiguan.