Tigger73's 125TSI Tiguan Build Thread

[tigger73]

I'm always upright when dealing with customers and I recall that I told you at the beginning to go with the APR, because I didn't have the bench tuning capabilities and Autologic the second brand that I use couldn't tune at the time (it can now) over the OBD2 port (14 months ago).

Now.... in your write up, I hope you will include every tuner brand who opened your ECU right from the beginning (don't leave the first one out of it), and just so every one knows, the Viezu file that misbehaved in your ECU was bench tuned and all your dealing was with the company in Melbourne, not with me in Adelaide. There were no tuned VAG cars in SA by Viezu SA, that had an issues. I would deal with it differently, you know that.

The condition of your ECU after it was opened by someone else (leave it to you to name the company), would forbid me from going ahead and tune your Tiguan with Viezu file. I told you after the first attempt to tune that your ECU needed to be fully reprogrammed by the VW dealer at that time (not any more, well at least in Adelaide ), this could mean that you would get the never version of the original ECU file and the outcome would be completely different, BUT that didn't happen and to my knowledge there was no communication or advice asked in the Viezu camp by the new dealer in Melbourne how to proceed.

After the first failed attempt to correct your tune in Melboune, you should get the full refund (maybe even compensation) and maybe you should ask the Melbourne tuner for it, rather than continue to drive unhappy for a year(?) in the car that you didn't enjoy.

Yes Transporter, I remember having a number of conversations with you about the best path forwards for tuning my car over the past couple of years. You have always been helpful with your advice and it is unfortunate that you were not able to tune my ECU as this was always my first preference (but understand that cost of purchasing tools and number of ECU's you would tune make it not profitable).

We have also tried a number of times to read my ECU over the OBD port each time a new update for the various tools comes through. And only last week your Autologic could read my ECU However limitation with Autologic is that it is stage 1 tune only and wouldn't allow any development to stage 2 or further. So for me it's a bit limiting.

The major challenges I faced at the time were (and still are):

• Tiguan MED17 ECU was bench tune only
• No tuners in Adelaide have bench tuning tools for the MED17 ECU
• No tuners had stage 2 hardware (DP) for Tiguan

So when Gavin from Custom Code was in Adelaide 18 months ago, I did have him attempt to bench tune my ECU. Unfortunately due to timing of his visit, and the fact that Custom Code had not tuned this particular ECU variant before, this meant that this was not an overnight job. Gavin ended up returning to Brisbane after having taken a read and applying a patch file to allow access to program the ECU over the OBD port.

Gavin was going to send down the programming lead for me to flash over the port, however I was not 100% comfortable doing this. In the unlikely event that anything went wrong and the ECU got bricked, then who would be responsible if I was the one flashing in the file? Also after further discussion with Gavin at Custom Code each hardware upgrade is an additional cost for software so although it is cheaper up front there's ongoing costs. Plus I still needed to get myself a DP and this would be a custom job. Given the ongoing costs for new files from Custom Code (not Gavin), I'd probably be better off to get all hardware first and then have Gavin tune it. Also Gavin wasn't planning to come back to Adelaide anytime soon so it all got too hard and I started looking at other options.

Which is when I started talking to Simon at Viezu about tuning my car and using it as a test-fit vehicle for Viezu Australia hardware range (VAR Design) for the Tiguan... story to be continued

[Transporter]

It's a real pity that the Viezu didn't get your tune fixed, but it's good that you're finally happy with your Tiguan. That's always been the first thing in my heart even if it means I lose the customer to other brand.

Good luck with your further modifications.

[tigger73]

It's a real pity that the Viezu didn't get your tune fixed, but it's good that you're finally happy with your Tiguan. That's always been the first thing in my heart even if it means I lose the customer to other brand.

Good luck with your further modifications.

Actually that's not quite correct as Viezu did eventually fix my tune file. However my issue was the performance, although certainly an improvement over stock, still didn't match competitive tunes. I wasn't prepared to wait any longer for Viezu to (possibly) develop a stronger file for the 125TSI hence the reason for changing tuners.

So it was certainly disappointing after all the time and effort a lot of people had put in that we didn't get the result.

[Sharkie]

As Transporter, said at least you will now be happier with your Tig

To be honest, and not slagging other tuners (much anyway), if you see the actual time and effort spent by APR Australia developing and "localising" each piece of software and hardware they sell (and mostly on cars APR actually buys to do this development on) then you would never go anywhere else .....

Nothing gets released until it has been tried and tested locally, no software from overseas loaded straight onto a customer's car without extensive testing.

I've known and used APR for well over 7 years locally in Australia and have never had bad service or a product that did not meet my expectations. Others may have different views, but there are many many non-APR horror stories out there and I have never met another person who have had a legitimate issue with theur APR products.

[ViezuAustralia]

It's a real pity that the Viezu didn't get your tune fixed, but it's good that you're finally happy with your Tiguan. That's always been the first thing in my heart even if it means I lose the customer to other brand.

Good luck with your further modifications.

Transporter, just to confirm - Tigger73's tune was fixed. His car had been suffering a hesitation - a rare thing we'd seen on a handful of cars in Australia. We have been doing ridiculous amounts of further R&D on these on the 2.0tsi's all year to ensure it doesn't happen further and whilst at it, have developed far superior files for most MED17 ecu variants too.

We (my Viezu Racing arm) had been working with tigger73 and VARdesign for packages/hardware development, and at the same time, once the issue had been confirmed and duplicated, behind the scenes Viezu Technical had been doing masses of R&D to get to the bottom of it. Main issue being it would rarely replicate.

These new files are part of the Viezu Racing program -- Viezu Racing is an arm of Viezu Oceania, all of which I run. So I had countless nights of logging and dyno sessions working with Technical to develop these tunes further (as we do locally with all the Viezu Racing files here) and see what this issue was.

Long story short, given the difficult circumstances of that car being in Adelaide where our Adelaide Dealer was only an OBD Dealer and this car at the time requiring a bench tune, it was a longer process than we like - to suitably test the files before rolling them out.
That process has been ongoing as you'd expect. However once I'd put it through its paces and it had been tested further afield too for me, I personally flew down to Adelaide before SEMA and benched this Tiguan myself. The car feels great - the tune levels on these are great. They're not 'bonkers' like the new Golf6 GTi files which have been finalised, but are linear, fast, smooth - and perfectly what we were after for them. But as I've said to Tiggy73 - as much as I know the 147 and 155tsi tunes are more than competitive, I suspect APR are turning the 125tsi into the 147 (before "tuning" it) in a manner, better than we can currently do on that particular output variant, until we do further development on that particular one, or until I can fly my Technical Team over here and access the car directly. (Which will happen this year at some point, but that's another story.)

Tiggy73's new tune was putting out some serious HP for a 125 - but when you can have it 'turned into the 147' more effectively by another tuner on this particular output variant, before then add some serious HP on top too, as APR seem to be able to do more effectively, then he'll be very happy I'm sure and add those missing KW. Tiggy73 and I discussed this at length and I suggested he will likely see those extra KW on the 125tsi with the APR tune on this occasion. If he does then my theory is right and I'll be happy - he'll be happy and all is well.

We'll continue development on the 125tsi moving forward that being the case, so we can do to it, what we can do to so many other software restricted variants before tuning them. If this is the case, the Tiggy73 will be happy and I'll be happy he's happy.

I'll try and spend some time on these forums a little over Xmas to bring everyone up to speed with new developments for 2014 - once it's ready to launch properly. But I don't want to crash Tigger73's build thread - it's meant to be a "build thread" not what it's turning into.

Any questions please ask me directly.

Cheers

Simon

[ViezuAustralia]

Nothing gets released until it has been tried and tested locally, no software from overseas loaded straight onto a customer's car without extensive testing.

Hopefully my last post addresses your wrongful intimation about our software development.

[Sharkie]

Hopefully my last post addresses your wrongful intimation about our software development

Whilst I agree this is not the place for it, unfortunately your post does nothing to make me feel more comfortable. Far from it. In fact if you read it carefully, my post addresses the extensive development APR puts into each and every tune (as a confirmation to tiggy73 that he is on the right path IMO going forward) and not any perceived lack thereof on your part.

[Ramee]

Sorry to disappoint, no K04

All I know is on the documentation I received it says the APR file is stage 2+ V1.2

Decided to get the race gas file instead of valet file. I may run race gas once whereas valet mode I can't see I would ever use.


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Yeah! I got the race gas 104 oct file and lost the valet mode(no use). But be careful not the put the car into this mode ever with 98 gas! They are pretty close you know 3 blinks & 4 blinks

Also love to see your Dyno graphs from APR and VEZU both so we can actually compare Anyway I don't think Vezuaustralia actually understand how APR create their tunes. If you dig some in to these you will see they actually reverse engineer whole ECUs and operating systems running on them, that is why they can have those fancy features like selectable multiple tune files from cruse control buttons etc. Saying APR somehow converting 125 into 147 before tuning is bit silly I guess !!

[tigger73]

Now I know car tuning is a touchy subject with people aligning themselves with various brands. However I'll say this upfront that this is not intended to start a tuner war. If you want one of these just start by posting something a little controversial in the tuner thread and wait until someone bites. What I'm looking to do here is document my experience over the last 18 months with getting hardware/software to tune my 125 TSI Tiguan.

I have gone down a path with Simon/Viezu Australia who was looking to develop hardware/tunes for the Tiguan (as well as a host of other vehicles). The reason I went with Viezu was because they offer great value for money and were the only tuner prepared to invest in developing stage 2 Tiguan hardware (exhaust systems in particular). This has actually encouraged tuners like APR to develop solutions for stage 2 Tiguans which has only benefited the end users/consumers. Without this competition, people would be left with the only option - to go and get a custom exhaust made.

[ViezuAustralia]

Saying APR somehow converting 125 into 147 before tuning is bit silly I guess !!

Hi Ramee

I'm trying to keep it in layman-terms, not give everyone a master class from the training academy.

It's how Viezu develop tunes too - I'm not sure why anyone might think differently. Reverse engineering is what you have to do when you want to develop a tune fully.