Team_v's Tig

[Sharkie]

Hey Johan,

APR - High Performance Development for Audi, VW and Porsche Vehicles.

APR Australia also claim 15hp+ atw for the record - refer to the link above.
9th paragraph down, including a nice big image of the dyno graph!

Anyway, I'll take it back down to the drags come September to see an "accurate, measurable" outcome reduced variables and all..

Sorry, yes, missed that on their site, however .... its a direct copy off the American site ... APR 2.0T Intercooler Concept and not reflective of testing carried out in Australia .... and stage II as mentioned in the dyno figures will include an exhaust as well so the results are a bit more cumulative as stock exhaust + stock intercooler vs stock exhaust + APR intercooler.

In local testing here on 6 GTIs on the same day we found that stock exhaust + mod intercooler = 4-5kw atw, downpipe + stock intercooler = 7-8kw and downpipe + mod intercooler = 17kw atw .... more than simply adding the 5+8 (=13) together ....

Agree, looking forward to seeing the drag results as this is where you will actually see the best results .... time slips count for much more than dyno figures anyway ...

[krracing]

..... and it does increase lag. On the TSI's this may not be as noticable, but common physics dictate that it must. You have a larger space (over 100%) that needs to be filled with extra air which makes response a little bit slower.
.....

I think your definition of "lag" is a little mistaken mate - turbo-lag is the time in which it takes a turbo to "spool up" to a speed in which it can function effectively. A larger turbo will take more time to spool up for example. Basically, the exhaust pressure has to overcome the rotational inertia of the turbine itself, therefore, the factors that effect "turbo-lag" can be the diameter of the turbo inlet, or the aspect ratio, the mass of the turbine fan itself, the friction created in the bearings, the response of the wastegate and finally the volume and velocity of the exhaust gases that are flowing into the turbo.

By having a larger intercooler is not going to effect the flow of gases into the turbo, and certainly won't effect the turbo's make-up itself.

Basically, the turbo will spool-up as quickly and effectively as before.

What I think you're suggesting is there is a higher volume of air between the turbo and the intake manifold - and I would totally agree with this, but a "vacuum" is not created in this section of piping when you back off the throttle or when you're at idle, there is still a volume or mass of air that remains at all times, and it will flow at all times. As long as the engine is running, it will need air flowing through it.
It may start off slightly leaner RIGHT down low in the rev range, but the lag you're talking about is all turbo and pre-turbo related!

[Sharkie]

I think your definition of "lag" is a little mistaken mate - turbo-lag is the time in which it takes a turbo to "spool up" to a speed in which it can function effectively. A larger turbo will take more time to spool up for example. Basically, the exhaust pressure has to overcome the rotational inertia of the turbine itself, therefore, the factors that effect "turbo-lag" can be the diameter of the turbo inlet, or the aspect ratio, the mass of the turbine fan itself, the friction created in the bearings, the response of the wastegate and finally the volume and velocity of the exhaust gases that are flowing into the turbo.

By having a larger intercooler is not going to effect the flow of gases into the turbo, and certainly won't effect the turbo's make-up itself.

Basically, the turbo will spool-up as quickly and effectively as before.

What I think you're suggesting is there is a higher volume of air between the turbo and the intake manifold - and I would totally agree with this, but a "vacuum" is not created in this section of piping when you back off the throttle or when you're at idle, there is still a volume or mass of air that remains at all times, and it will flow at all times. As long as the engine is running, it will need air flowing through it.
It may start off slightly leaner RIGHT down low in the rev range, but the lag you're talking about is all turbo and pre-turbo related!

Sorry, yes, wasn't clear what I meant by lag .... whilst the air is always flowing through the system as you said, its not always pressurized at the same level .... just off idle you will find that the pressure is actually very low in the system between the engine and the turbo. (Best seen on a boost gauge where the manifold pressure can be as low as -0.4bar off boost) So when you get on it, it has to pressurize the whole space (which with the intercooler is now much larger) to 1+bar and this takes a little bit longer than on stock and this time difference can be both measured and felt.

Feeling this difference in time as almost exactly the same as feeling turbo lag, even though I agree its not technically the same thing.

[team_v]

Another bit of an update for you.

Had a proper go of the APR stage 2 on the weekend.
The power is just insane, always on tap seemingly from 1000RPM and pulls hard right up through to the red.
Induction noise sounds great with the windows down.
Slight rasp to the downpipe but my stock one was more raspy so it doesn't bother me.

Fuel economy tends to suffer due to the newfound power which put my total average up to 11l/100km.
On the trip home i reset the trip meter and it wavered between 7.5-8l/100km so if driving for economy, the downpipe and intake seem to either better fuel economy or keep it even.

Also gave it a hose down as it had a layer of dust over it.
First one is during the rinse with all the water beading (thankyou nanolex sealant)
Second one is when it was dried (used stupid shamwow, need a microfibre towel which i am getting this week)

[Pullstarter]

Shamwow!!! LOL So you definitely noticed a power difference with the DP?

[team_v]

Shamwow!!! LOL So you definitely noticed a power difference with the DP?

Shamwow works opkay for soaking up a lot of the water but it holds a fair amount of water in it (even when i tried to wring it dry) so you can't ever get that freshly wiped dry look, it always ends up with a bit of residual water.
Only cost $2.50 though so it does the job for now.

Definitely a noticabel increase in power.
Probably more due to the retune which allows more power and the turbo to spool earlier.

I would say it is about half as noticable as the increase from stock to stage 1.

I was considering taking it out to Lakeside raceway but the cost for a one off run is a bit pricey and i don't want to cain the car just yet as it only just ticked over 1900km.
Also perishable items (brakes, fluids etc) are a bit pricey to replace for an effort just to see how it goes.
Maybe when i get my tax return or something.

[clip]

lovin' it Clay, just lovin' it!!!


About time for another run I think.

BTW, Meguiars Ultimate Detailer is awesome after washing, especially on dark colours. Sprays on like water but gets rid of all the chamois marks and really brings out the depth - even on my white Tig it's noticable.

[Pullstarter]

I use a waffle waeave towel for drying, you can't beat em Try here, they give discounts for VWWC members too;

Car Care Products / Car Care, Car Wax, Car Polish, Car Covers, Detailing products & more ...

[team_v]

lovin' it Clay, just lovin' it!!!


About time for another run I think.

BTW, Meguiars Ultimate Detailer is awesome after washing, especially on dark colours. Sprays on like water but gets rid of all the chamois marks and really brings out the depth - even on my white Tig it's noticable.

I have heard good things about Meguiars.
Will give it a look when the nanolex runs out.
I am using the nanolex becasue it is a quick and easy solution which is what i am after really, don't feel like the 2 hour detail every few weeks.

Should have a catch up drive again when Jimbo gets back.

I use a waffle waeave towel for drying, you can't beat em Try here, they give discounts for VWWC members too;

Car Care Products / Car Care, Car Wax, Car Polish, Car Covers, Detailing products & more ...

I will be getting a waffle weave towel this week from CCP.
Might still keep the shamwow for soaking up the main water and then use the towel for proper drying.
Got the microfibre cloth for buffing the sealant off as well.

[donweather]

For those with rainwater tanks, I can highly recommend washing the car with rain water. No need to dry off at all as the rainwater just evaporates after the wash with not one single streak or water mark....guaranteed every time.