How does a lightly modded 132TSI compare with a Golf GTI/R

[Roodosutaa]

"How long is a piece of string?" you say, please hear me out

I used to be a regular on this forum when I owned a 9N3 Polo GTI, but I've since moved on to a Megane RS250, and moved on again to a boring but practical and grown-up MPV-type thing when we had our firstborn

I've been itching for a sporty (preferably manual) car since, and now that the missus needs to drive the car we're in the position to get a cheapish 2nd car for me to drive.

Now I'd happily buy a used 2012 Megane RS in a heartbeat, it's the first car I'd ever wanted to own more than once. Or something smaller and newer (say 3-4 years old) like a Fiesta ST, but being the responsible dad there'll be times I'd need to consider the family and neither car is practical nor particularly comfortable (the missus hates the Megane and said it makes her nauseous). The Golf GTI is a bit out of my range for the same age and mileage.

So trawling through carsales, I came across the Tiguan 132/132 Pacific, it's within the same price range, now I'm normally not a fan of SUVs, but I like the combination of AWD and the easy moddability of the EA888 engine, and for VWs in general. Plus the 4 doors, ok boot space and the ability to fly under the radar are also appealing (must be getting old). So it ticks a lto boxes

Looking on this forum I noticed there's quite a few Tiguans with ECU tunes and there's heaps of videos of modded Tiguans on youtube. But I'd just like to ask: how does a modded Tiguan drive with say a Stage 1 ECU tune and lowering springs, when compared with the GTI or even the R? Can it be made to handle like a Golf or is it still a straight-line cruiser from being taller and heavier?

Also is the timing chain tensioner issue still prevalent? There's been a few posts on here every now and then and I'd hope all 2012-13 cars would've had this fixed by now.

Apples and oranges I know, but I've driven the Golf VI GTI so I can use it as a reference point as to how it compares.

Thanks guys.

[tigger73]

First of all it's hard to compare as the driving position is completely different.

One of the first things to fix is the amount of body roll in the Tig and this can be done relatively inexpensively with a stiffer rear sway bar.

The biggest advantage that the Tiguan has over the GTI is traction. The problem with all the front wheel drive Golf/Scirocco's (and probably Megane) is the lack of traction when you start putting down power through the front wheels.

The Tiguan actually handles surprisingly well for an SUV, though is taller and heavier than a hot hatch. A stage 1 tune, sway bar and flappy paddle steering wheel and you're away.

In the 132TSI just make sure the one you're looking at has the DSG gearbox. There's a couple of years where the conventional auto was supplied around 2012-213. It was marketed as the "Pacific", however I think they continued this naming even after the DSG came back so best to check.

If you want to drive it then you'll either want manual or DSG but not the auto. If you can find one with the R-line kit these came with DSG paddle shifters. You can retrofit a steering wheel with it but expect to pay ~$600-$800.

[niterida]

I am looking at doing the same thing for the same reasons
From my internet research and talking to APR ad Unitronic it appears the 125/32/147 and 155 TSI models all hare the same EA888 engine the Golf R and the tunes bring them up to the same as the tuned Golf R.
They are 200kg heavier than a GTi but only 100kg more than a Golf R so not a huge penalty.
I test drove one a few weeks back (a standard 132) straight after driving a VF Commodore V8 ute and the Tig felt faster and braked and handled better.
I can only imagine tuned, lowered and stiffened Tig would, in the real world, be every bit as good as a standard GTi or an R.
And you can tow 2000kg which is the clincher for me.


Don't quote me on this but I think the torque converter auto was only in the very early models ??

[tigger73]

From memory torque conveter auto was in all 2008-2010 models with the change-over at MY11 (halfway through 2010). So you can get some pre-facelift 125/147TSI's with DSG in 2010-2011.

Then when the facelift came out in 2012 there was a worldwide shortage of DSG's so the 2012-2013 132TSI got the conventional auto again for a year or so before production of DSG's caught back up and then it reverted to DSG. 155TSI always had the DSG.

Someone may be able to correct me with the dates but that's just from memory. Moral of the story is just check the gear shift and see that it has DSG written on it

The other big advantage of the Tiguan is you can fit a lot wider rims/tyres than you can to a Golf without running into rubbing issues. I was running 255's but am now back to 245's mainly due to tyres being cheaper in that size.

Engine in the Tiguan is the same as the Mk6 GTI and can tune the same. There's some minor differences between the 125/132/47/155 one of the most significant is the size of the intercooler. You will find the intercooler in the 125/132 may be limiting you/robbing you of some kW at the top end once tuned.

[VW Convert]

Someone may be able to correct me with the dates but that's just from memory. Moral of the story is just check the gear shift and see that it has DSG written on it

Sounds pretty well right to me but with respect checking if it's a DSG, you'll know the moment it changes from 1st to 2nd!

Cheers

George

[Roodosutaa]

The biggest advantage that the Tiguan has over the GTI is traction. The problem with all the front wheel drive Golf/Scirocco's (and probably Megane) is the lack of traction when you start putting down power through the front wheels.

In the 132TSI just make sure the one you're looking at has the DSG gearbox. There's a couple of years where the conventional auto was supplied around 2012-213. It was marketed as the "Pacific", however I think they continued this naming even after the DSG came back so best to check.

If you want to drive it then you'll either want manual or DSG but not the auto. If you can find one with the R-line kit these came with DSG paddle shifters. You can retrofit a steering wheel with it but expect to pay ~$600-$800.

Certainly AWD traction was one reason I'm interested after 10 years of hot hatches. The fat tyres and the long throttle travel (with adjustable mapping) on the Megane helped, but launching or getting power down was still a challenge especially in the wet, 90% of the time it doesn't bother me though.

Had no idea a conventional auto was brought back - I originally thought all facelifted non-manual Tigs had DSG so appreciate the advice, still leaning towards a manual though, more involving plus probably less things to go wrong - the car's probably 5-6 years old after all, even though I've heard the wet clutch DSG box is generally reliable. Looks like they've stopped importing manual cars after 2012 however so options are pretty limited if I had to have a manual 132TSI.

Had they released the Golf Alltrack a few months earlier, that would've been a no brainer for us. Cut-price Golf R wagon!

[pistoncranky]

First of all it's hard to compare as the driving position is completely different.
...
In the 132TSI just make sure the one you're looking at has the DSG gearbox. There's a couple of years where the conventional auto was supplied around 2012-213. It was marketed as the "Pacific", however I think they continued this naming even after the DSG came back so best to check.

If you want to drive it then you'll either want manual or DSG but not the auto. If you can find one with the R-line kit these came with DSG paddle shifters. You can retrofit a steering wheel with it but expect to pay ~$600-$800.

Why the caution about the Tiptronic auto transmission in favour of the DSG.. the way I read it, others here have warned people off the 6 speed DSG and talked up the Tiptronic 6SP ("slush box") and then there's others saying the later 7SP is the better box if you want DSG so long as its not for use in off-road sand or other low speed conditions because of heat issues in the DSG and clutch-pack. Do you mean this solely in the context of ripping up the "black-top"?

[pistoncranky]

Certainly ...

Had they released the Golf Alltrack a few months earlier, that would've been a no brainer for us. Cut-price Golf R wagon!

I test-drove a Golf Alltrack a month or so after they were released (at the time I owned a 2012 2.0 TDI Golf Wagon and finance was just about due) and was looking for a sportier replacement and I have to say the performance was a sad disappointment. The lag on take-off was dreadful.. felt like 0.5 sec lag after hitting the go pedal ...and I mean seriously-drive-yourself-into-trouble type of lag when I was expecting more of a launch.. my old 2.0 TDI was car lengths ahead. I drove another one a few months back and it wasn't as bad but it still wasn't that great.. by then I'd bought a Tiguan and it was in for a warranty parts repair and they'd given me this nice, nearly new (red) Golf A/T for two days - yeah, it was awesome with all the bells and whistles (panoramic sunroof etc) but I was happy to give it back (having gone down a different track) and got back in my 4 year old Tig and it still felt like it was quicker off the mark - having had it's Haldex pump replaced.

[tigger73]

Why the caution about the Tiptronic auto transmission in favour of the DSG.. the way I read it, others here have warned people off the 6 speed DSG and talked up the Tiptronic 6SP ("slush box") and then there's others saying the later 7SP is the better box if you want DSG so long as its not for use in off-road sand or other low speed conditions because of heat issues in the DSG and clutch-pack. Do you mean this solely in the context of ripping up the "black-top"?

The OP was talking about having a car that is family friendly as well as engaging to drive through some windy roads. That’s why I was recommending the DSG over an auto. The DSG is definitely a better option in terms of driver engagement - particularly if you have a steering wheel with paddle shifters.

If you don’t have paddle shifters the DSG manual mode is only ever useful for putting the car in a fixed gear to stop from over speed going downhill.

The slush box auto is a lot slower (2 seconds?) to 100 than the DSG. So if you want a performance SUV then you definitely don’t want to start with a 2 second disadvantage.

The 7 speed DSG in the Tiguan has proven to be a reliable unit. There’s very few reports of problems - a few in higher km Transporters but overall very few issues. Same can be said for the auto in terms of being a reliable unit it can’t be faulted but in terms of driver engagement you’ll want the manual or DSG for sure.

Also DSG comes with launch control in the Tiguan which works well at stop lights Not that I’ve ever tested it.


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[pistoncranky]

@tigger73 about DSG vs. Tiptronic
Thanks, I get that - for a performance feel the DSG is great... I had one in a TDI 103 golf Wagon and loved it and its very well suited to a diesel with the shorter rev range.
When I bought the Tig. I was looking for a manual 132kw because I was moving to a regional area and was leary about the availability of knowledgeable service there and the DSG generally but the manual seemed very rare - I got to reading up on the Tiptronic Pacific and it seemed a viable option especially in the expected "road conditions" (snow, slush, icy, low speed) that I was anticipating and a decent one came up. Yes, I'd like a sportier feel but I made a trade off because I couldn't find a manual and I still feel the same about the DSG as a long-term proposition in regional places.
Do you (or anyone) know what is the proper service interval of the ATF in the Tiptronic box - I was told it is a sealed for life / don't change fluid and the same for the front and rear bevel (differential) fluids..