RNS510, speed cameras and the need for a disk?

[slipshot]

OK, I'm asking this out of curiosity and because I have seen people advise that dealers should always supply the sat-nav DVD with their car.

I subscribe to a speed camera database that I wanted to put onto the RNS510 system. I needed the original map disk which I have, and have now added the speed camera info, plus a few other POI's such as ANZ locations etc. Anyhow, I then found there was a limit to the number of POI's the map could show, but that's fine.

However, it obviously installed the new info (and presumably the map) from the new burnt DVD that I provided? Thus, I'm just curious as to whether the DVD is actually linked to the car's unit, or could you theoretically share the DVD with others with the new maps?

I know that every time there is an update to the camera's (which is weekly in my case) I should have to create a new DVD which could be rather expensive. But I just wondered how the DVD, if it is, is linked to the system?

The dealer told me that I should 'ensure I do not lose my map disc as they cost $1,000 to replace'.

A short time later she said when new maps were available, if I bought the car in they would upload these to my HDD without charge.

Thus just curious how it works?

Thanks

[Corey_R]

First up - I'm not sure this should be in this forum, it should maybe be in the VW Car Audio and Electronics forum.
Next up - I'm not an "RNS-510" expert because I haven't yet had the pleasure of "living with" the unit yet.
But now to go through your questions.

OK, I'm asking this out of curiosity and because I have seen people advise that dealers should always supply the sat-nav DVD with their car.

Yes - the Sat-Nav DVD should always be supplied with the car. Customers who receive the car without the DVD, should first check in the glove box and boot to make sure it's not there, and then contact the dealer immediately.

I subscribe to a speed camera database that I wanted to put onto the RNS510 system. I needed the original map disk which I have, and have now added the speed camera info, plus a few other POI's such as ANZ locations etc. Anyhow, I then found there was a limit to the number of POI's the map could show, but that's fine.

However, it obviously installed the new info (and presumably the map) from the new burnt DVD that I provided? Thus, I'm just curious as to whether the DVD is actually linked to the car's unit, or could you theoretically share the DVD with others with the new maps?

Okays, lets slow down a bit here and break this down.
- What is the speed camera database you subscribe to?
- Why do you need the original map disk for that?
- What's the process of adding the new POI's which requires the original disk.

After that, I'm almost positive that the Sat Nav DVD has copy protection and circumventing copy protection, even for the purpose of "making a backup" is against the law. (I don't have an RNS-510 disk, but the previous VW DVD navigation system for the Golf had copy protection).
Beyond that, sharing the DVD with others (distribution) is definitely against the law.

I know that every time there is an update to the camera's (which is weekly in my case) I should have to create a new DVD which could be rather expensive. But I just wondered how the DVD, if it is, is linked to the system?

No idea. Someone else will have to answer that one. (Although my very educated guess is that they're not linked).

The dealer told me that I should 'ensure I do not lose my map disc as they cost $1,000 to replace'.

$1000 is a bit of an exaggeration. For the V3 maps released in the past few months, the figure is more like $650 (off the top of my head), but depending on the dealer, can be cheaper.

A short time later she said when new maps were available, if I bought the car in they would upload these to my HDD without charge.

Thus just curious how it works?

This is why my educated guess is that the DVDs are not linked to the system. I'm not quite sure of the legality of this however, so I probably wouldn't be openly advertise this fact just in case...

[slipshot]

Ok, to answer your questions...

PocketGPSWorld is the provider. Good solid database. However, via separate software you can purchase, it allows you to basically 'edit' the VW map by adding POI's (which is all the speed camera database is). This works by inserting the map DVD into your computer, it then reads it, you add the POI's via the new software's system, then re-burn the map to a new blank DVD with the new POI's added. You then insert this into your satnav, it reads it as a 'newer' version, and automatically updates the HDD. Works a treat.

Good to know the actual price of the disk too - thanks...

I do not believe I'm do anything wrong. I'm merely adding POI's to my existing, fully paid for DVD, via a system that provides for it. That VW did not offer it is fair enough but it makes no changes to the existing system, just adds to it. Thus I think it's probably on the right side of legal.

As for copy prevention - well, I'm not sure that it does. However, from what little I know of the law, I believe you are allowed to make copies of your own DVD's for your own use, as back-ups. It's sharing them that creates the issue (although I suspect neither of us really knows the actual answer). But sharing I can understand is not possible in law - hence my other question about whether the disk was linked to a particular unit.

I have no inclination to share, but given there are a number of solutions out there to add POI's to the VW system, and I don't think by adding POI's you are actually doing anything illegal, it's a worthy option to have.

It may be illegal for a reason I'm unaware of, but I'd certainly hope not as it's bloody nice to have the flexibility to have my own choice of POI's and indeed updated ones when needed.

[Tux]

I don't believe you are doing anything wrong either seeing you're not sharing your new DVD. I have wanted to do this as well but it doesn't seem worth it without audible warnings.

I've been thinking about using a TomTom with an external aerial just for audible alerts. I'm thinking I could mount it under the dash somewhere out of the way...

[Corey_R]

Although I'm not certain to the status of legal cases on the issue in Australia, there are cases around the world which are very clear what the stance is - particularly in the USA and the UK.
Even if you are the owner of the product, it is illegal to make a copy of the media (whether dvd, blu-ray, cd, digital (files etc) or otherwise), even if it is for the purpose of a personal backup, if it involves circumventing copy protection or digital rights management schemes.

This is why software such as RealDVD, DVD Decrypter, and many many others have disappeared or ceased development over the years.

Having said that, if with the RNS-510, you can just use a "regular tool" to copy the data off the DVD, and then burn it back (such as Nero, Roxio, or the built-in Windows burning features etc), and the RNS-510 still accepts the disc, then there is no copy protection - as these products don't allow you to circumvent it.

[Corey_R]

Anyhow, I then found there was a limit to the number of POI's the map could show, but that's fine.

Anyway - back on topic. This limitation on the POIs.

Is this limitation just on how many it can display? Like if you have 200 POI's in Surry Hills, but then zoom in onto the one street which has 5 - will all 5 of them show when zoomed in? Or will you still miss some?

I hope I'm explaining that question properly. Basically I'm wondering if you've only got "speed camera" POI's selected, whether there is any possibility of missing one due to the POI display limitation.

[Jasonpb]

You can make a backup copy

Are there any exceptions to infringement?

or here where they obviously miss out a bunch of other info but do mention you can make a backup copy. Q&As on using computer software — Australian Copyright Council

[slipshot]

Anyway - back on topic. This limitation on the POIs.

Is this limitation just on how many it can display? Like if you have 200 POI's in Surry Hills, but then zoom in onto the one street which has 5 - will all 5 of them show when zoomed in? Or will you still miss some?

I hope I'm explaining that question properly. Basically I'm wondering if you've only got "speed camera" POI's selected, whether there is any possibility of missing one due to the POI display limitation.

Very good question. I perhaps may not have explained it sufficiently either.

You can add as many categories as you like to the POI section, make your own new folders and call them whatever you want. You can rename existing ones too.

The limitation is what the screen will allow you to show. For example, I like to have speed cameras on display, especially as Tux says there is no audible speed camera warning unfortunately, which is where my Tomtom won over. I have my camera's broken into categories which means there are 4 or 5 categories there. Add on MacDonalds, ANZ, fuel stations and maybe one other and you reach the limitation that the system can show on the screen as you drive along.

Of course you can select a POI to drive to and it will search them all, but I like to be able to see them while driving and thus change my route accordingly.

I also understand that having too many POI's could be seen as cluttering the screen. Fair enough, but if you drive in certain areas and have parks, for example, as being shown, this can happen as one park that is broken into little pieces has an icon for every piece.

Thus it's not a grumble as such, more pointing out that the system does limit this number that can be displayed.

In other words, the limitation is the number of categories you can display on the screen. If one category had 20,000 POI's, it would still show all of them on the screen.

I may try and combine some of the camera's so just have one or two categories handling everything and thus reducing the number of POI's in use but keeping the same number of camera's visible on the map.

[Corey_R]

You can make a backup copy

Are there any exceptions to infringement?

or here where they obviously miss out a bunch of other info but do mention you can make a backup copy. Q&As on using computer software — Australian Copyright Council

Your statement is still misinformed.

Those links confirm part of what I was saying, and are completely irrelevant for the other part. Everyone already knows that you are allowed to make a backup of most media that you own, which those links only confirm. What is illegal is to circumvent copy protection or digital rights management, which neither of those links even mention. This means if the media you are trying to backup contains copy protection or digital rights management, THEN it is illegal to make a "backup" (well, again, the backup part isn't illegal, it's just the cricumventing the copy protection which you would need to do to make the backup).

But please, if you would like to discuss it more, start a thread in the General Discussion forum - because this is not the place for it.

[Corey_R]

Very good question. I perhaps may not have explained it sufficiently either.

Thanks for the more detaield explanation.
Hopefully one day the VW Nav system offers more of these features built in, but until such time, this seems like a good, although a bit time consuming and fiddly way, of achieving the same thing