RNS510 + audio upgrade suggestions?

[spiff]

Wow RF_4Motion, I'm sure we would all love to see what you've done. It sounds like a huge fantastic project. Is your gear selected based on matching the RNS510, or do you intend to change the head unit later and just getting a bit more advanced gear now to futureproof?

I wonder how much impact what I was told by the guy in the shop would have on this kind of setup. That is, (paraphrasing) the head unit is the weakest chain in the link.

If these things do work, then I might not consider swapping the RNS510 out at all, and looking at more reasonable options for replacing the other stock bits.

What do you do with them anyway? Keep them or try to sell them? The stock speakers and what not.

[aristocrat]

Couldn't wait to see your project and some photos as I am deliberating an upgrade to the sound system as well. Your photos might just tip me into buying and upgrading sooner than expected.

[GHW]

Wow RF_4Motion, I'm sure we would all love to see what you've done. It sounds like a huge fantastic project. Is your gear selected based on matching the RNS510, or do you intend to change the head unit later and just getting a bit more advanced gear now to futureproof?

I wonder how much impact what I was told by the guy in the shop would have on this kind of setup. That is, (paraphrasing) the head unit is the weakest chain in the link.

If these things do work, then I might not consider swapping the RNS510 out at all, and looking at more reasonable options for replacing the other stock bits.

What do you do with them anyway? Keep them or try to sell them? The stock speakers and what not.

Hi Spiff, if you're concerned about the audio quality output vs aftermarket (and, yes, the eq curves built-in to factory units are all over the shot usually to compensate for poor quality speaker performance) as others appear to be offering up suggestions, here's another alternative for you.
Alpine make a product called PXE-H650E. Unlike the others it isn't simply a line level converter / booster. It can take up to 30v input (meaning all systems including pre or post power amp) it has an analyser to check the inevitable eq settings built-in (as above) then uses a 175 band "ant-eq" processor. This cleans up the factory eq to dead flat. You then use a supplied microphone in the seating listening position and the unit generates specific tones from the speakers to analyse phase issues, interior eq problems and uses another independent 175 band eq to phaze correct, time align the speakers and sub (if you install one, it's not essential for the processor to work) and eq the interior using an Audyssey XT Pro processing chip (Audyssey is a company owned by two guys who are the "T" and "H" in THX) Audyssey will be familiar to those of you with high end home theatre with room compensation, this is exactly what this is for a vehicle instead.
In summary, it fixes the poor output performance inherent in 95% plus of factory systems, corrects the phase issues in the vehicle, auto equalisers the interior and enables 4 seating positions to be programmed in so you aren't the only one with staging and imaging quality, your passengers get it too.
It's very sofisticated, recommended to be installed and tuned by a professional and is a whopping $799 plus installation! not a big investment to dramatically improve an average system. You'll end up with the features and functions you want, factory look and superior sound.
My 2c FWIW

[VW Central]

I am absolutely in love with my new setup. I also have an RNS510, it works and sounds brilliant.

See my post over at GolfMKV: Audio Setup

[RF 4MOTION]

The common trend in car audio is to change the head unit, the rules have changed with vehicle entertainment systems now integrated and sometimes fully integrated into the vehicle. Things like Nav, steering wheel control, multi function dash screens etc. Why change this and spend up to $2000 to get what you already had, and cant integrate as well? $2000 can buy your complete upgrade....

This is why you are seeing more and more aftermarket companies producing OEM integration devices with option that include correcting OEM signal irregularities, EQ, subwoofer control, time alignment, electronic x-overs, channel summing, high voltage pre-outs etc. Such items include the Rockford 3Sixty range, Audison Bit-1, Alpine PXE, JL Audio Cleansweep, Audio Control etc. These items range from $250 - $1500 depending on the level of control, as you can see from the prices they are far more than just your old type speaker to RCA converter.

In the case of the VW RNS510 (without Dynaudio upgrade) it is fairly straight forward. The system has 4 ch high power output that is not altered as the x-overs are on the actual tweeters in the front and rear, no centre channel and no subwoofer. The most important upgrades are amplification and then speakers (you would be amazed what adding power to original speakers and a subwoofer can do for your system). Then of course, upgrading the front speakers first and then (if at all), the rear speakers. The Rockford 3Sixty-BLD is perfect and for $249 will make your factory unit complete.

Overall I think it is important to keep the integrity of the original vehicle intact, factory electronics, only tapping off wires where needed, using factory speaker locations adding sub-bass and amplification WITHOUT DRILLING ONE HOLE and actually making it look factory. Afterall, the car is your pride and joy and you paid a lot of money for it, and when you you sell it you will be thankfull.

[hannson]

In the case of the VW RNS510 (without Dynaudio upgrade) it is fairly straight forward.

1. The system has 4 ch high power output that is not altered as the
2. x-overs are on the actual tweeters in the front and rear,
3. no centre channel and
4. no subwoofer.

The most important upgrades are
a. amplification and then
b. speakers (you would be amazed what adding power to original speakers and a subwoofer can do for your system). Then of course, upgrading the front speakers first and then (if at all), the rear speakers.

The Rockford 3Sixty-BLD is perfect and for $249 will make your factory unit complete.

thanks RF 4MOTION!!

I've kind of broken down your advice into the above to ensure I understand correctly

In essence.... for the RNS510 that we have... we just need to add amplification e.g. something like the Rockford 3Sixty-BLD and it'd be pretty good... and when we've got a bit more cash.. change the front speakers

Is that correct?

Do you have any recommendation for the front speakers? what about the tweeters should we change that too?

Thanks again for the advice

[spiff]

That's awesome information RF 4 MOTION.
My understanding is a little different from hannson's in that, you recommend a product such as the rockford 3sixty or PXE-H 650E (i read about 3sixty.2 when i was reading into the PXE-H 650E but haven't researched that. also read about cleansweep being a similar product) first to "reset" the factory eq, then add the other stuff to bring it back up to good quality.

What you've suggested regarding as little work as possible but making a difference is exactly what I'm after.

Will do more reading into the various setups and equipment others and you have suggested. I noticed a lot of Alpine gear in the shop I went to (Alberts), so I might drop by and see what they have.

[RF 4MOTION]

In the case of the RNS 510 you dont need to reset any eq. It has a flat, full range response to all 4 speakers. If you have the Dynaudio upgrade, that is a different kettle of fish, it has external amplification and more speakers. Upgrading from this will need a summing, auto eq'ing device such as the
3Sixty.1 or .2. This device would have to go after the OEM amplifier, not the headunit. Different needs for different set ups.

Alberts are great, I know all the Alberts guys, they only sell and recommend the highest level of brands. Alpine, Rockford and German Maestro would be their choice. I highly recommend the German Maestro speakers, they are designed and manufactured in a small town near Heidelberg, Germany. They are perfect fits for your German VW, NOT TO MENTION SOUND AMAZING.

When changing the factory speakers you will be selecting from a range of component sets (or splits as they are commonly known). They vary greatly in quality and therefore price, pick a budget and stick to it, anything above $400 will handle 50-70watts RMS, then get an amp with the matching power, if in doubt get more power than less. There are far more speakers blown from underpowering (volume turned up into clipping or distortion to meet the listeners needs) rather than too much power. But dont overdo it. Stick to recommended brands, aim for 100-150% of the speakers RMS power handling.

I am glad to be of help to any questions anyone has, PM me if you want. I have been in the car audio industry for over 20 years and I love VW's... say no more

[hannson]

1. In the case of the RNS 510 you dont need to reset any eq. It has a flat, full range response to all 4 speakers.

2. If you have the Dynaudio upgrade, that is a different kettle of fish, it has external amplification and more speakers. Upgrading from this will need a summing, auto eq'ing device such as the 3Sixty.1 or .2.
Note: This device (3Sixty.1 or .2.) would have to go after the OEM amplifier, not the headunit. Different needs for different set ups.

Hi.. sorry to bother you again and my attempt to paraphrase your notes... does this mean a RNS510 without Dynaudio wouldn't need any Rockford stuff.. and just need new speakers?

[Swallowtail]

Hi.. sorry to bother you again and my attempt to paraphrase your notes... does this mean a RNS510 without Dynaudio wouldn't need any Rockford stuff.. and just need new speakers?

Hannson - just my humble opinion, but I reckon a decent outboard amp would be needed to really "drive" a new set of quality speakers... There is a small amp under the passenger seat in the stock system, but it's decidedly weedy!