Discover Media retrofit

[SandSeeker]

SandSeeker:hi.

I'm trying to understand the problem here - but I'm not succeeding! I had understood from your first post that the issue was the illumination level of the infotainment screen during daytime ONLY - but somehow the problem seems to have morphed to also include the temp numerals on the HVAC panel.

I'm not sure how the Golf mk6 manages changing cabin light levels - but it's done via a small photo-transistor on the mk7 -which sits between the "8" and "7" numerals on the tacho - like this:

.

The new MIB in this car has mk7-ish style channels - so I suspect that its roots are probably embedded in MQB platform vehicles (I'm guessing).

Anyhow, the way that the mk7 handles illumination levels as the cabin light levels change is via a set of "X-axis" and "Y-axis" adaptation channels that create a set of reference-points on a sort-of graph. Each reference-point determines the illumination level of the thing being controlled when the photo-transistor voltage reaches the specified value. This means that the illumination level of various devices can be altered with changing cabin light levels - by changing the adaptation channel values!

The set-up works like this:

• Each X-value channel defines a 12 x bit A/D (Analogue-to-Digital) conversion of the Photo transistor output voltage
• Each Y-value channel drives a 6 x bit D/A (Digital-to-Analogue) converter output for whatever is being controlled (there are multiple screens/LEDs/Displays that are controlled in this manner on a mk7)

I note that your 5C0035680D module also has 2 x sets of "X/Y" axis adaptation channels that look very similar to the mk7 set-up - but I'm not sure how they operate on a PQ35 platform car.

Anyhow -maybe post-up the current values for the following channels in your new MIB:

Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-X1
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-X2
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-X3
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-Y1
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-Y2
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-Y3

Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X1
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X2
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X3
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X4
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X5
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X6
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y1
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y2
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y3
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y4
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y5
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y6

Hopefully the channels above act in the same way as on a mk7 and the solution to your display problem is just a coding change (yes, my hunch is a bit of a long-shot, but it's an easy try -so worth considering IMO)

Don

Hi Don,

Thank you so much for your answer. Yes, you understood perfectly my issue. The brightness is always at the same level, it means, during the night, very bright, during the day, very dark.

As you said, I saw something similar when I was looking at the possible options to be coded for the head unit 5C0 035 680 D in the Adaptation's area. I will check it again and try to find out the options you have posted. If I can find it, I will post the stored values I have coded right now.

In the other hand, I have exactly the same sensor you showed in the picture, in my cluster, but, what I'm not sure is, if the brightness is controlled by the exterior light sensor in the front window, or by the Cluster sensor in my case.

Thank you so much. I will continue trying to solve the issue.

[SandSeeker]

The BCM swap is a very big job, and not for the faint of heart, it evolves a lot of wiring, depinning and crimping, and you have the safety risk that if you did anything wrong, your lights might stop working.

There are a few build logs with the CECM to BCM on the Passat, this would be similar if you want to gage the amount of work.

The BCM is responsible for the terminal 58d (panel dimming circuit) this is also a CAN value that is broadcasted. I am unsure if the CECM broadcasts this on a different ID or at all

Hi MIG,

Thanks again. Well, my idea was the following:

To buy another control unit like mine, just only to get the connector where to connect the original connectors from the car. In the other side of this connector, to weld all the necessary wires and connect it to the original new connectors of the new BCM. Like a Harness adapter, something like this.

If there is any Schema where I could find every wire position and pinout, where should be connected every wire, then, even if this is a big work to prepare the Harness, it would be no problem for me, I use to weld and create some diagnosis or tools for old cars, so the amount of work is no problem for me.

The only concern I have is that probably this adaptation needs something else than just creating a Harness. Probably there would be some coding, or probably I can use same number coding from CECM to paste it to the new BCM.

If you think that this is possible, or there is enough information, pinouts, etc, over the internet, or someone can guide me to where I could find this information, then that would be great!!!

Of course, for me, the quick and easy way to solve it would be the HBA/Runlock/Automatic start/Brightness PCB module, but I had no luck. Second option I'm going to try is the one from Don's post. Finally, if I can not solve it.... then.... lot of work waiting for me ��

Thank you so much!

[SandSeeker]

Also some of the terminals change size, some wires are too short to repin etc.
It's about an 8 hour job in a very unergonomic location.
Had there been an easier solution available for me at the time I would not have done it.
There is demand for the adapter and bear in mind it's one guy doing it in his spare time.
My advice would be wait until you can get one from him, or get yourself ready for a lot of discomfort and potentially a car that won't work while you get through the BCM upgrade.

Hi kamold, thanks for your answer.

You are completely right, that's why my idea was to create an adapter, outside of the car in a better and comfortable situation. Once is Done, you only have to go to the car and connect the adapter between the original car connectors and the new BCM. But I'm not sure if this is possible or if there is enough information to be able to do it.

Thanks!

[DV52]

I have exactly the same sensor you showed in the picture, in my cluster

OK - that's excellent news - because it means that this car uses similar technology to the mk7!

You don't identify the version hex17 module that is in this car and I'm not sure which diagnostic device you use. VCDS calls this module "Instruments" and the module is called "Dashboard" in OBDeleven speak. Please tell us about the hex17 module!

..........what I'm not sure is, if the brightness is controlled by the exterior light sensor in the front window, or by the Cluster sensor in my case.

So, the explanation for your question is like this:

Windshield sensor: The sensor on the windshield has various names depending on what functionality it has (there can be different versions of this sensor). This said, ALL versions of the windshield sensor are combined Rain and Light transducers, so they are called RLS (Rain Light Sensor).

If you look at the windshield RLS from outside the car, you should see that it has a number of dots embedded into the epoxy body of the transducer - usually the dots are blue in color (viewed from inside the car, only the sensor housing can be seen). One of these dots is the light-sensor part of the unit. The fact that the light sensor is pointing outwards from the car tells you that it is sensing ambient light levels - meaning that the RLS is ONLY interested in what is happening in the environment external to the car .

The primary role of the RLS is management of the car's external lighting - like deciding when the headlight-lamps change to night-time running (i.e. DRLs-OFF and Low-beam lights & Position-lights ON)

Photo-transistor: As I show from my previous picture and because of its location in the Dashboard, the photo-transistor points "inwards" into the cabin interior. So, the photo-transistor looks inside the car for it's transducer readings - meaning that it can ONLY measure light levels within the cabin! Of course cabin light-levels are impacted by ambient light levels - but this doesn't change the myopic cabin focus of the photo-transistor

The primary role of the photo-transistor is management of the illumination levels of various displays/screens/LEDs inside the cabin

The RLS is directly connected to the 09 module and the photo-transistor is a peripheral of the 17 module - albeit both modules are part of the central CAN spine in the car. So the light measurements from the 2 x transducers are easily communicated to other modules on the CAN network.

Hope this makes sense!

[SandSeeker]

OK - that's excellent news - because it means that this car uses similar technology to the mk7!

You don't identify the version hex17 module that is in this car and I'm not sure which diagnostic device you use. VCDS calls this module "Instruments" and the module is called "Dashboard" in OBDeleven speak. Please tell us about the hex17 module!

Hi Don, I'm using VCDS but I also have VCP for diagnostics or flashing Gateway's. The number reference for the cluster I have retrofitted is: 1K8 920 885 J.

I understand that I have to check the channels from your previous post in the MIB module, right? or in the instrument cluster module?

So, the explanation for your question is like this:

Windshield sensor: The sensor on the windshield has various names depending on what functionality it has (there can be different versions of this sensor). This said, ALL versions of the windshield sensor are combined Rain and Light transducers, so they are called RLS (Rain Light Sensor).

If you look at the windshield RLS from outside the car, you should see that it has a number of dots embedded into the epoxy body of the transducer - usually the dots are blue in color (viewed from inside the car, only the sensor housing can be seen). One of these dots is the light-sensor part of the unit. The fact that the light sensor is pointing outwards from the car tells you that it is sensing ambient light levels - meaning that the RLS is ONLY interested in what is happening in the environment external to the car .

The primary role of the RLS is management of the car's external lighting - like deciding when the headlight-lamps change to night-time running (i.e. DRLs-OFF and Low-beam lights & Position-lights ON)

Photo-transistor: As I show from my previous picture and because of its location in the Dashboard, the photo-transistor points "inwards" into the cabin interior. So, the photo-transistor looks inside the car for it's transducer readings - meaning that it can ONLY measure light levels within the cabin! Of course cabin light-levels are impacted by ambient light levels - but this doesn't change the myopic cabin focus of the photo-transistor

The primary role of the photo-transistor is management of the illumination levels of various displays/screens/LEDs inside the cabin

The RLS is directly connected to the 09 module and the photo-transistor is a peripheral of the 17 module - albeit both modules are part of the central CAN spine in the car. So the light measurements from the 2 x transducers are easily communicated to other modules on the CAN network.

Hope this makes sense!

Great explanation.

The point is, my MKV Golf has from factory and correctly coded the Windshield sensor for the day and night automatic lights.

At some point, I retrofitted my cluster from the original one to the newer one, I think this new cluster comes from a Scirocco, and the reference of the instrument cluster is: 1K8 920 885 J - KOMH02 1109

So, my doubt is, if the dimming interior lighting for the screens like MIB or Climatronic is controlled by the Windshield or by the instrument cluster one. When I had the RNS-510 head unit, the brightness was automatically working, from a sensor included in the head unit if I'm not wrong, and the RNS was showing the HVAC Climatronic screen when I was setting it.

However, I was thinking, is it possible that the instrument cluster is not able to communicate with the MIB? or probably this sensor in the instrument cluster is not active or not coded in Adaptation of the instrument cluster?

My hex17 instrument cluster is : 1K8 920 885 J

Thanks a lot !!!

[DV52]

I understand that I have to check the channels from your previous post in the MIB module, right? or in the instrument cluster module?

The channels in my previous post can ONLY be found in the new MIB.

So, my doubt is, if the dimming interior lighting for the screens like MIB or Climatronic is controlled by the Windshield or by the instrument cluster one.

Again, the photo-transistor in the instrument cluster controls "dimming interior lighting for screens like MIB or Climatronic". But as I now understand, the "Climatronic" is the Climatronic screen on the MIB - it's NOT the illumination level on the Air-Conditioner panel

When I had the RNS-510 head unit, the brightness was automatically working, from a sensor included in the head unit if I'm not wrong, and the RNS was showing the HVAC Climatronic screen when I was setting it.

hmm.... with the important caveat that I'm not familiar with a Golf mk5, I would be very surprised if the original RNS-510 had a separate light sensor.

Certainly, the new MIB does NOT have its own light sensor - as I indicated in a previous reply, the new MIB takes the output reading from the photo-transistor in the instrument module and it modifies this signal via the values in adaptation channels that I listed

As for your mention of the HVAC Cimatronic screen, this is simply just another display from the new MIB unit - so, the illumination level of this particular screen is affected by the underlying MIB settings - as are ALL other MiB screens

However, I was thinking, is it possible that the instrument cluster is not able to communicate with the MIB? or probably this sensor in the instrument cluster is not active or not coded in Adaptation of the instrument cluster?

Hmm....... again, there is only ONE light sensor that modulates the illumination level of cabin displays/screens (i.e. the photo-transistor). If the illumination level of the clocks/LEDs on the instrument cluster changes with changing cabin light-levels - then the photo-transistor is operating OK. As to what is causing the problem on modules other than the instrument module, I'm not sure - hence my request for the adaptation channel information!

Are you aware of "admaps" from VCDS devices and are you comfortable with creating and posting-up an admap for the instrument module?

[SandSeeker]

The channels in my previous post can ONLY be found in the new MIB.

Great, today I'm going to check if the channels are active or not and the values stored just in case, thank you so much!!!!

But as I now understand, the "Climatronic" is the Climatronic screen on the MIB - it's NOT the illumination level on the Air-Conditioner panel

No, my issues are, in general, two:

1- The brightness of the screen of my MIB. The brightness is always static, same brightness during the night or during the day.

2- The brightness of the small Climatronic screens: In my Climatronic panel, there are two small screens showing the number of the temperature selected, one for the driver and another one for the passenger. This two small screens have always same static brightness as the MIB Screen, too dark always.

hmm.... with the important caveat that I'm not familiar with a Golf mk5, I would be very surprised if the original RNS-510 had a separate light sensor.

Yes, the RNS-510 has its own and independent brightness sensor in the front panel. I have tested it before.

If the illumination level of the clocks/LEDs on the instrument cluster changes with changing cabin light-levels - then the photo-transistor is operating OK.

Yes, it is changing correctly the brightness of the instrument cluster yes, I assume then the photo-transistor is working fine.

Are you aware of "admaps" from VCDS devices and are you comfortable with creating and posting-up an admap for the instrument module?

I don't know about "admaps" from VCDS devices, but if you can guide me a little bit on how to do it, I can do it, no problem for me. But I believe that the instrument cluster photo-transistor is working fine.

However, today I'm going to check all the values for the channels you mentioned in your previous post for the MIB. I should probably check the values in the dark and in the daylight?

Thanks again for all your help!!! I really appreciate it!

[SandSeeker]

I note that your 5C0035680D module also has 2 x sets of "X/Y" axis adaptation channels that look very similar to the mk7 set-up - but I'm not sure how they operate on a PQ35 platform car.

Anyhow -maybe post-up the current values for the following channels in your new MIB:

Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-X1
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-X2
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-X3
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-Y1
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-Y2
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-Y3

Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X1
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X2
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X3
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X4
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X5
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X6
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y1
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y2
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y3
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y4
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y5
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y6

Hopefully the channels above act in the same way as on a mk7 and the solution to your display problem is just a coding change (yes, my hunch is a bit of a long-shot, but it's an easy try -so worth considering IMO)

Hi Don,

Here we are, the current values stored in my new MIB for the channels are the following:

Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-X1 ---> 0
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-X2 ---> 20
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-X3 ---> 50
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-Y1 ---> 0
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-Y2 ---> 20
Dimming_Ambient_Illumination_Information_Control_U nit-Y3 ---> 50

Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X1 ---> 3
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X2 ---> 10
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X3 ---> 15
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X4 ---> 60
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X5 ---> 0
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-X6 ---> 0
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y1 ---> 2%
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y2 ---> 10%
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y3 ---> 15%
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y4 ---> 90%
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y5 ---> 0%
Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit-Y6 ---> 0%

[DV52]

SandSeeker: OK - thanks for the information!

Once more for emphasis - from your responses in the first part of your last reply - it DOES appear that stuff is different on this Golf mk5 (no surprise given the different build platform, I guess!)

The differences in your explanation means that you will need to experiment with my suggestions -so, NO guarantees!!

I suggest that the appropriate channel grouping for this problem is Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit

First, the fundamentals about "Dimming Illumination" channels:

1. If there is a similarity with MQB platform cars and as I said in my first reply, the set of X/Y values for the group of channels represents points on a graph - with the axes defined like this:

Each X-channel refers to a particular level of cabin illumination (i.e. a particular photo-transistor voltage value)

Each Y-channel specifies the dimming level output for the corresponding X-channel value

2. Again if stuff is the same - Increasing X values represent increasing light-levels in the cabin - so X6 is the highest cabin light-level and X5 is the next lower cabin light-level.....etc

3. I suspect that the lowest X/Y values (i.e. X1 & Y1) refers to illumination levels when low-beam lights are switched-ON. When this happens, the photo-transistor ceases to control the lighting levels of cabin screens/displays. Instead, control is transferred to the "T58" signal and the illumination level is set by the dashboard lighting rheostat -but I'm guessing!!

4. It appears that the "Dimming Illumination" channel values in the MIB are decimal numbers - so the range of allowable values = 0 -> 100 (this isn't necessarily the case in other modules which often use hexadecimal numbers)

So, for the Dimming_Illumination_for_Display group of channels - maybe try increasing the values of Y6 and Y5 If this doesn't work, maybe try increasing Y1?

Finally, I STRONGLY suggest that you make careful notes of each change when experimenting. This will be useful if stuff goes pear-shape - simply reset the values in your notes by reverting changes back to the original settings. Then, start again!

Don

[SandSeeker]

SandSeeker: OK - thanks for the information!

Once more for emphasis - from your responses in the first part of your last reply - it DOES appear that stuff is different on this Golf mk5 (no surprise given the different build platform, I guess!)

The differences in your explanation means that you will need to experiment with my suggestions -so, NO guarantees!!

I suggest that the appropriate channel grouping for this problem is Dimming_Illumination_for_Display_Unit

First, the fundamentals about "Dimming Illumination" channels:

1. If there is a similarity with MQB platform cars and as I said in my first reply, the set of X/Y values for the group of channels represents points on a graph - with the axes defined like this:

Each X-channel refers to a particular level of cabin illumination (i.e. a particular photo-transistor voltage value)

Each Y-channel specifies the dimming level output for the corresponding X-channel value

2. Again if stuff is the same - Increasing X values represent increasing light-levels in the cabin - so X6 is the highest cabin light-level and X5 is the next lower cabin light-level.....etc

3. I suspect that the lowest X/Y values (i.e. X1 & Y1) refers to illumination levels when low-beam lights are switched-ON. When this happens, the photo-transistor ceases to control the lighting levels of cabin screens/displays. Instead, control is transferred to the "T58" signal and the illumination level is set by the dashboard lighting rheostat -but I'm guessing!!

4. It appears that the "Dimming Illumination" channel values in the MIB are decimal numbers - so the range of allowable values = 0 -> 100 (this isn't necessarily the case in other modules which often use hexadecimal numbers)

So, for the Dimming_Illumination_for_Display group of channels - maybe try increasing the values of Y6 and Y5 If this doesn't work, maybe try increasing Y1?

Finally, I STRONGLY suggest that you make careful notes of each change when experimenting. This will be useful if stuff goes pear-shape - simply reset the values in your notes by reverting changes back to the original settings. Then, start again!

Don

Hi Don,


Thank you so much for your great explanation about the brightness subject. I assume that all the tests does not have any guarantee. Today I revised everything you suggested me to try, but I had all the time no success. The thing is, every time I wanted to set a new value to have a try, a different error or information message window was coming up from VCDS without saving the desired value. I'm attaching screenshots... What a nightmare this the brightness issue...








Today I realized something about the button in the dash for the dashboard brightness regulation, that allows me to set the brightness dashboard lights and illumination from the cluster, MIB screen and all the buttons illumination. This button, is only working when I put the switch of the lights to the Automatic mode and the maximum brightness is not enough.

If I put the switch of the lights to the OFF position, then the brightness changes to the same as the maximum brightness from this button, but then, the button does not work, and the maximum brightness is still not enough.


About the MIB options, I also have realized a couple of things:
1- If I deactivate the option "Animation when finger near screen", then the brightness increases a little bit.
2- In my MIB Settings, and Screen, does not appears the option showed in the following image, the "Day/Night", don't know why...



And the option above, "Brightness", is settled to "Very bright". And the brightness still not enough.

Thanks a lot.