2016 Volkswagen Navigation Map DVD V9 Australia for RNS 510 Maps VW OEM Pre Order

[theresanothersteve]

Are you kidding? I am selling the older version to someone that might want it when I buy the newer version. I will be using version 9 and will have the licence rights to that because I hold the disc. You'll need to explain to me in great detail if you know that there is something wrong with that ethically and in law.

Actually I'm a software developer.

Like I said, you don't own the digital content when you buy software. You are buying a licence to use the software. When you install software you agree to the terms of the licence. In most cases the terms of licence will limit the installation to one device, one user, or something similar.

While I can understand your gripe that you are no longer using the software and therefore should be allowed to sell it, the software is still installed on your device. It should be deleted before you sell it. Of course, if the version you are installing needs the old version pre installed to work then it is definitely wrong to sell it.

As I said, it all depends on the licence you agreed to with the older update. And, licence agreements are never favourable to the purchaser, they are not in a position to negotiate.

That's why I stated I didn't want to take the high ground, I understand the argument from both sides. What makes it even 'funnier' is you can use Google as a navigation device, the maps are more up to date than the current offerings from traditional navigation devices, and it costs nothing.

I can see the day coming when cars will be even more like computers. We won't have radios, CD players, Navigation. We will have apps. Want navigation? Download Google maps, whereIs or another app. Wish you ordered heated seats? Go to the VW app store and download the upgrade.

[AdamD]

While I can understand your gripe that you are no longer using the software and therefore should be allowed to sell it, the software is still installed on your device. It should be deleted before you sell it. Of course, if the version you are installing needs the old version pre installed to work then it is definitely wrong to sell it.

That's not true at all. Once you upgrade to the new version (from a disc you own), there should be no problem whatsoever in selling on the older disc, as long as the EULA for that disc doesn't prevent its resale/transfer. Just because the installation procedure may require that an existing version of the software is installed prior to upgrading to a new version, once you upgrade the software you're contracted under the terms of the new EULA, not the old one. In legal terms, the old version is no longer installed - they're not installed concurrently.

[arcadelt]

Actually I'm a software developer.

Like I said, you don't own the digital content when you buy software. You are buying a licence to use the software. When you install software you agree to the terms of the licence. In most cases the terms of licence will limit the installation to one device, one user, or something similar.

While I can understand your gripe that you are no longer using the software and therefore should be allowed to sell it, the software is still installed on your device. It should be deleted before you sell it. Of course, if the version you are installing needs the old version pre installed to work then it is definitely wrong to sell it.

As I said, it all depends on the licence you agreed to with the older update. And, licence agreements are never favourable to the purchaser, they are not in a position to negotiate.

That's why I stated I didn't want to take the high ground, I understand the argument from both sides. What makes it even 'funnier' is you can use Google as a navigation device, the maps are more up to date than the current offerings from traditional navigation devices, and it costs nothing.

I can see the day coming when cars will be even more like computers. We won't have radios, CD players, Navigation. We will have apps. Want navigation? Download Google maps, whereIs or another app. Wish you ordered heated seats? Go to the VW app store and download the upgrade.

I know I should have a thicker skin about this, but any suggestion that I am doing something unethical, immoral or illegal cuts because I live my life and worked for 30+ years with ethics at my core - well, as best as I can. Therefore, I am genuinely interested to make sure that I am doing the right thing.

I know you said that it depends on the licence agreement, but are you suggesting that, for example, I should be keeping the discs of all the versions of Microsoft Office I have purchased since Office 97, now 20 years old? I would think not. Even if every subsequent version was an upgrade, I would opine that I have the licence to the youngest full version, but that each upgrade or update appends that licence, such that the previous upgrade was now free to be sold so someone else to use, provided they also own a licence to a full version that can legally be upgraded. So, ignoring the different editions (standard, professional, home & office, etc), an example upgrade and sales path for Office could look like this:

• Office 97 Full. Original purchase. Must be kept.
• Office 97 Full + Office 2000 Upgrade = Office 2000 Full. Both must be kept.
• Office 97 Full + Office XP Upgrade = Office XP Full. Office 2000 Upgrade can be sold.
• Office 97 Full + Office 2003 Upgrade = Office 2003 Full. Office XP Upgrade can be sold.
• Office 2007 Full. Now Office 97 Full and Office 2003 Upgrade can be sold, either separately or together.
• Office 2007 Full + Office 2010 Upgrade = Office 2010 Full. These two must be kept.
• Office 2007 Full + Office 2013 Upgrade = Office 2013 Full, so Office 2010 Upgrade can be sold.
• Office 2016 Full purchased through Office 365 subscription. Now Office 2007 Full and Office 2013 Upgrade can be sold, either separately or together.

Translating this to the navigation in my Tiguan. My car was upgraded by replacing the original RCD-310 with an RNS-510. Firmware to operated the unit is embedded in ROM, so I have that licence (unit can't work without it anyway, and firmware upgrades seem to be freely available all over the internet, including on vwwatercooled). Additionally, the unit included v7 maps (either in ROM, but I suspect more likely on the hard drive) which I guess I might have a separate licence to use. I did not get a disc to go with this. Anyway, the maps upgrade and sales path will probably look like this:

• RNS-510, including v7 Maps Full (if there is such a thing). Original purchase. If I had a v7 disc, that must be kept.
• RNS-510 + v8 Maps Update = v8 Maps Full. If I had v7 Maps Full disc I expect I would be required to keep that along with the v8 Maps Update disc. That said, it looks like the next version is a full version too, so that opens the possibility that only the disc for the current version needs to be kept.
• RNS-510 + v9 Maps Update = v9 Maps Full. I am now free to sell the v8 Maps Update disc.

I have looked on the v8 Maps Update packaging and disc, and at the disc contents, and I can find nothing that looks like a licence agreement, except a note on the back of the package that parallel use is authorised for one system only.

As I said up front, I want to do the right thing, so anyone feel free to make a counter argument as to why I should not be allowed to sell my v8 Maps Update disc.

[theresanothersteve]

All I'm saying is if you purchase an upgrade, rather than a full version, you need to keep the original disks. In your example of the Office products you need to keep the disks you need to be able to reinstall the product.

If you wish to abide by the licence agreement, check the EULA to see how many devices the software can be installed on. If it is only one to comply with the EULA you must uninstall it from the original device before you can on sell it. (This also means the EULA must allow you to sell the content). Even if you do not need it for the upgrade (ie V6 will upgrade to V8 without the need for V7) you should remove it from your device before you sell it if the EULA only allows one installation. I know, I'm being pedantic, but that's why I said at the start I don't want to take the high ground. Nor do I want to judge...

I find music has a similar dilemma. I have music on LP, cassette, and CD (some titles in all 3 formats). I think I should be allowed to download an MP3 of the music free of charge (and if you buy some titles through Amazon you can) because I've already paid for it at least once, and I can only listen to one format at the time. The big end of town disagrees, although some artists have said they don't mind.

The bottom line is I agree with you, what you want to do should be allowable. But I think you'll find the agreement you entered into (implicitly because you didn't sign anything but implied agreement by continuing with the install) doesn't share that opinion. Software pirates and the litigation driven society we live in has made a lot of vendors take the heavy stance.

[Hillbilly]

Anyway what would the previous version of the map be worth if the new one is only $50.

Hardly worth advertising it and the postage would cost more than its worth which is basically nothing.

Anyone who can afford the car must be pretty hard up to buy the previous version of the Navigation map.

[arcadelt]

Anyway what would the previous version of the map be worth if the new one is only $50.

Hillbilly, where can you get the new maps for $50?

Hardly worth advertising it and the postage would cost more than its worth which is basically nothing.

That is a value judgement. Have you looked on eBay and Gumtree anytime in the last 10 years? Things sell for low prices all the time. It's not always about the price, but also putting items into the hands of those who want to reuse them.

Anyone who can afford the car must be pretty hard up to buy the previous version of the Navigation map.

Again, that is a value judgement. I know some people who have never upgraded their maps because of the almost-criminal prices that the dealers charge for the current maps.

[AdamD]

All I'm saying is if you purchase an upgrade, rather than a full version, you need to keep the original disks. In your example of the Office products you need to keep the disks you need to be able to reinstall the product.

Assuming the license does explicitly state that the disc is an upgrade only, and that the EULA is an addendum to the original rather than a replacement, you've still got the license over the original map content that was installed on the device at the factory. RNS-510s aren't sold without maps or a license for same, which is why I'd be surprised if this is an upgrade license at all. Irrespective of whether you had v8 on the device before you upgraded to 9, or v5 - as long as you had a valid licensed copy of any version on the device, you should be absolutely fine to sell your v8 (or whatever) disc - as long as you still have your license over the original maps distributed with the device originally.

[Hillbilly]

Hillbilly, where can you get the new maps for $50?
That is a value judgement. Have you looked on eBay and Gumtree anytime in the last 10 years? Things sell for low prices all the time. It's not always about the price, but also putting items into the hands of those who want to reuse them.
Again, that is a value judgement. I know some people who have never upgraded their maps because of the almost-criminal prices that the dealers charge for the current maps.

Last one I bought was $55 and yes I have been a member of Ebay since 1999 in two countries.

The postage frequently is more than the cost of the article here in Aus whereas you can buy something from China for 99c and get it in a week
My value judgement is that an old version map is like buying last weeks newspaper Things have moved on since the publication of both.
But there are those that think differently I guess, obviously.

Incidentally the map SD for two models of Mazda3 are $245 for the cheap vers entertainment unit and over $1000 for the flash one. I know I had to buy one when I stuffed one up in a friends car.

A Landcruiser map is about $400 nowadays I believe so maybe VW arent so bad after all.

[arcadelt]

All I'm saying is if you purchase an upgrade, rather than a full version, you need to keep the original disks. In your example of the Office products you need to keep the disks you need to be able to reinstall the product.

Great, we agree on something then.

If you wish to abide by the licence agreement, check the EULA to see how many devices the software can be installed on.

As I said earlier: "I can find nothing that looks like a licence agreement, except a note on the back of the package that parallel use is authorised for one system only".

If it is only one to comply with the EULA you must uninstall it from the original device before you can on sell it. (This also means the EULA must allow you to sell the content). Even if you do not need it for the upgrade (ie V6 will upgrade to V8 without the need for V7) you should remove it from your device before you sell it if the EULA only allows one installation.

You are writing in generalities, which I guess is OK, but it does not consider the specific circumstances of this device and situation. You do not uninstall one version of the maps in order to install the next.

I find music has a similar dilemma. I have music on LP, cassette, and CD (some titles in all 3 formats). I think I should be allowed to download an MP3 of the music free of charge (and if you buy some titles through Amazon you can) because I've already paid for it at least once, and I can only listen to one format at the time. The big end of town disagrees, although some artists have said they don't mind.

Actually, I don't think you should get free access to download digital music just because you have it on LP, cassette, and/or CD, but I do think you should be able to convert (format shift) your physical media to a digital format so you can listen to it on any of your devices (space shift), provided that it's for personal domestic use and you keep the original media. What is clear is that you have every right to sell the LP, cassette, and CD if you buy a digital version of the same music or if you no longer listen to that music.

The bottom line is I agree with you, what you want to do should be allowable. But I think you'll find the agreement you entered into (implicitly because you didn't sign anything but implied agreement by continuing with the install) doesn't share that opinion. Software pirates and the litigation driven society we live in has made a lot of vendors take the heavy stance.

Again, as I said earlier: "I can find nothing that looks like a licence agreement, except a note on the back of the package that parallel use is authorised for one system only".

I know, I'm being pedantic, but that's why I said at the start I don't want to take the high ground. Nor do I want to judge...

You made a judgement when you said "what you are doing is morally and ethically wrong"; and prefixing your opinion with "Without taking the high ground" is actually not a modifier - it's akin to saying to someone "with all due respect" and then saying something disrespectful. That said, as you are a software developer, I understand that you are close to the problem of illegal use and copying of software, so I get your position. However, taking consideration of the comments made in this thread and having done my own research, I am now very comfortable that I can sell my previous version of the maps once I have installed the new version. Thanks for your input.

[arcadelt]

...so maybe VW arent so bad after all.

Except when compared to aftermarket devices and maps that are (almost) free on most smart phones.