Oettinger Turbo Diesel Remap

[OilBurna]

well said Guy H wise words, I know which one I woudl be going for... there was also a whole thread on 4 x 4 monthly forum about all the different chips / ecu reflashes etc worth reading.

[Transporter]

P.S. - MR T5 is correct -

Modifications of any sort - Can effect warranty.

The biggest issue & responsible for the biggest number of claims is window tinting - Most people think window tinting is harmless - but often an untrained apprentice will have the job of dismantling your new cars door trims to get access to the windows - Broken clips, rattles, damaged door handle connectors etc.

So tinting your windows can void the warranty on the doors of your car (and has!)

Let me tell you something. If I go to the dealer to replace broken clip and warranty would be voided because of the window tint:
To replace that broken clip in the door trim the worst thing can happen I pay for the clip and an hour of the labor and I can pay for it with the smile on my face.

But if the dealer would be saying to you after your Touareg was brought to the workshop on the tow truck: Mr. Guy_H you modified EDC module which caused damage to the engine and it will cost you $15,000 and it will take a month because the parts we need have to come from Germany. I want to see the same smile on your face.

P.S
You see some things are just not worth it.
It is very competitive market and manufacturers are tuning their engines for more and more power all the time.
Maybe you should give them your number; because they might be interested in your power chips and performance modifications that you are selling in hundreds.

[gldgti]

Let me tell you something. If I go to the dealer to replace broken clip and warranty would be voided because of the window tint:
To replace that broken clip in the door trim the worst thing can happen I pay for the clip and an hour of the labor and I can pay for it with the smile on my face.

But if the dealer would be saying to you after your Touareg was brought to the workshop on the tow truck: Mr. Guy_H you modified EDC module which caused damage to the engine and it will cost you $15,000 and it will take a month because the parts we need have to come from Germany. I want to see the same smile on your face.

P.S
You see some things are just not worth it.
It is very competitive market and manufacturers are tuning their engines for more and more power all the time.
Maybe you should give them your number; because they might be interested in your power chips and performance modifications that you are selling in hundreds.

please lets not make inflamatory statements. it is not in the interest of healthy discussion - thanks.

cheers, aydan

[Transporter]

please lets not make inflamatory statements. it is not in the interest of healthy discussion - thanks.

cheers, aydan

What inflammatory statement:
The tinted window - broken clip voided warranty or the modified EDC broken engine voided warranty.
That's raising awareness of potential danger that you may lose a new car warranty which you paid for. And doing more harm than good. Leaving the legal issue alone.
I know that on this forum is many people who modify their cars and maybe they see it from different point of view.

I don’t like when somebody is using my post and try to make an idiot from me
(P.S. - MR T5 is correct -
Modifications of any sort - Can effect warranty.
The biggest issue & responsible for the biggest number of claims is window tinting).

[sparky]

As the one who started this discussion,its interesting that VW themselves have just remapped the 2008 TDI from week 45 production in 2007 from 165kw and 500nm to 176kw and 550nm....I also agree with Guy H that from my research the O system is the most appropriate way of adjusting performance..it is not warranted by VW but understand they will at least fund it in their finance packages so I am told!Rgds Sparky
Also understand that in the normal course the IS NOT visable during Service!

[Transporter]

As the one who started this discussion,its interesting that VW themselves have just remapped the 2008 TDI from week 45 production in 2007 from 165kw and 500nm to 176kw and 550nm....I also agree with Guy H that from my research the O system is the most appropriate way of adjusting performance..it is not warranted by VW but understand they will at least fund it in their finance packages so I am told!Rgds Sparky

You are right, but with some minor engine mechanical changes.
I have Transporter T5 with R5 engine and the same engine in The Dakar Race Touareg is producing some 218kW that's 90kW more than the standard R5 engine. And without knowing what other changes were done to achieve such a huge power increase (leave alone affect on the engine durability) I wouldn't chip mine.

Companies who are selling the power chips will not tell you that in order to minimize negative affect on the engine and other components life you have to do some other mechanical changes to your engine to safely get more power from it. That would discourage many potential buyers. And since some modern engines can tolerate some power increase they will get away with it.

It is something like that.
The engines are build for specific output and due to the tolerances in manufacturing process some engines would produce lets say 20% less power, so 1/3 would be less, 1/3 would be spot on and 1/3 would be able to safely get more power output than original specs, so the adjustments are made in ECU (EDC) software at final stages to accommodate that inaccuracy.
So, this is why it is a blind shot when you install the power chip.
Now for myself, I’m closing on this topic.

[gldgti]

let me offer some engineering knowledge to the debate so that we might make more sense of the question of reliability vs performance vs chip ugrades vs other engine modifications, and how they all fit together.

starting with the basics: an engine produces torque. when this torque is multiplied by the engines angular velocity (or rpm) the figure becomes power, measured in watts (which is Joules-per-second).

so if your Toureg produces 550Nm at 1800rpm, then you can find out that the power at 1800 rpm is

P = T*w
= 550 * (1800*2*pi/60)
= 550 * 188.5
= 103.7 kW

and ofcourse, the equation works backwards - if the dakar R5 engine makes 218kW at around say 4500 rpm, then the torque output is

T = P/w
= 218,000/(4500*2*pi/60)
= 218,000/471.4
= 462Nm

now that we all understand that, we can stop talking about power and concentrate on torque, ok? good.

if you want a diesel engine to produce torque, you need 3 things. air, fuel and compression. compression is fixed. so all you can do is play with air and fuel.

if you have a normally aspirated diesel, it is very hard to make a lot of torque, because you have trouble getting much air into the cylinder. thus, normally aspirated diesels tend to be low power units - like the mk1 1500cc engine.

however, by utilising a turbocharger, we are able to force in more air. this allows us to add more fuel, and thus we see an increase in torque output.

now consider that when you do all of this compressing, burning, expanding, your highly efficent diesel engine uses about 40% of the fuel energy to make torque. the rest is turned into HEAT.

there are 2 main exits for this heat - 1 is though the cooling system, and the other is the exhaust.

when an engine is designed and engineered to go in a car, so is the cooling system. all things work in harmony to produce a net life expectancy for the engine, for which the manufacturer bases their economics, and thus warranties.

NEW DIRECTION - if you want to increase the output of any diesel engine, all you need to do is increase the amount of air and fuel you can squease into each cylinder. so if you run higher boost, you add more fuel, and you produce more torque.

you also produce more heat, and since the cooling system will not remove much more than it already does, the rest of the heat must go out f the exahaust system.

ASK ANY DIESEL ENTHUSIAST about performance tuning a diesel and the precautions required, and there is ONE thing at the top of the list - EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE.

so what does this mean? when you increase the torque output of your diesel engine, without changing anything else the exhaust gas temperature increases. ALWAYS.

now, it depends how much overdesign in the cooling system and the old exhaust system there is, and how restrictive your turbocharger setup is as to what power increase will result in what change in EGT - however, the more air and fuel you put into the engine, the higher the EGT's, UNTIL one day driving up a big hill with a load on, your piston melts and wont slide in the cylinder anymore, or your turbine gets so hot it breaks apart at 200,000rpm and causes you a big headache.

so the logic is that if you want to increase the torque output, it should be done with EGT's in mind, and hence you need to do things to remove the extra heat produced by the engine.

firstly, your super silent stock exhaust is the most heat restrictive piece of equipment on your car. i'll bet a lot of money that the R5 dakar treg would have a mighty big exhaust with NO mufflers at all.

secondly, if you are running your turbocharger faster and harder to get greater boost pressures, then the temperature of the inlet air becomes REALLY high, REALLY fast. which is why any performance diesel needs an intercooler - and the more power you want, the bigger the intercooler you need. at just 12psi boost, inlet air of 25deg c will be typically 135 deg c once compressed.

most new tdi's with VNT turbochargers will hit 30-35psi at times, depending on the ecu mappings.

finally, your stock turbocharger has an efficiency range of rpm against pressure ratio. small VNT's like are fitted to new TDI's are typically designed to hit high boost pressures for short periods of time - like hard city traffic acceleration. but the longer your tiny turbo is at super high rpm, the hotter it gets, as well as it prolonged use at high rpm. already it is a given fact that VNT's seem to wear out faster than the wastegated turbochargers of old, because they rev so much faster, the bearings simply wear out.

so back to torque and power - if get an ecu flash or DP chip box or whatever, that increases your max torque right through the rpm range, including a big increase in max power (torque at high rev's) then you can expect that your turbocharger is working super hard to give you the air required at those high rpm.

Now ofcourse, Oettinger know about all this. they will have factored it in already, but the fact remains that if you use all that peak power, you will be shortening the life of something - probably your turbocharger.

in my experience, people want something for nothing with new cars - "what chip should i get that wont void the warranty?" or "what chip gives me the safest power increase?"

the simple answer is none of them - unless you are willing to put a less restrictive exhaust, a larger intercooler, a bigger radiator, larger turbocharger's etc etc etc. its all relative. a 10% increase may not make any real difference to the life of the engine, but a 20 percent increase will definately have more of an effect and so on.

in turning my 55kw 1.9TD into something which now would be pushing 75kW, i have already had to take this into account - fitting an intercooler has already happened. but i know that its not safe for me to increase the fuelling much more, or increase the boost much more until i upgrade the exhaust aswell, because if i dont, i'll end up without a car to drive at all.

the bottom line is this - if you want to increase the output of your diesel by any really noticable amount without causing yourself future headaches, a chip wont do it all for you. you will need to sacrifice something else - quietness, comfort, money.... something in order to allow your engine to remove the extra heat.

and if you wanto to go all out and make your v10 treg produce 2000Nm and 500kW, then i i reckon you might want ot think about selling the kids...

[Transporter]

Ok, let’s not forget that when you build the engine one has to calculate how strong the components have to be. And because weight is an important factor the engine has to be as light as possible.
Of course new materials and science will help with this, but nobody will make the components stronger than they have to be and waste money in case one day somebody wants more power from that engine and decide to install the power chip. Instead when you buy the car you can choose the model with the stronger engine which is a much safer choice since the suspension and the brakes will match the power of that engine (you see it is safety aspect as well).

But the bottom line is this. If the engine is built for max power 128kW and 400Nm torque plus some safety buffer. It means you cannot increase the torque over maximum torque allowed, if you do, something will fail.

[gldgti]

But the bottom line is this. If the engine is built for max power 128kW and 400Nm torque plus some safety buffer. It means you cannot increase the torque over maximum torque allowed, if you do, something will fail.

i have ignored this factor due to the simple fact that vw diesels have always been much stronger than required, and that any trouble caused by making more torque from a chip upgrade will come from heat long before overstressing the engine internals becomes an issue.

[Golf Houso]

i have ignored this factor due to the simple fact that vw diesels have always been much stronger than required, and that any trouble caused by making more torque from a chip upgrade will come from heat long before overstressing the engine internals becomes an issue.

I agree, but also consider the torque the transmission can handle, isn't the 5 spd in the t5 the same as the v10 In those circumstances I can't see a problem with increasing the torque and hp in a t5