Advice on racing tires and wheels

**ypad1** · 07-10-2015, 04:31 PM

Hi there...I'm a newbie to motor racing and so far I've been to the VW progressive course at Phillip island and I've also been on MSAV event at Sandown. After my Sandown stint...my front tyres (continentals) are worn out and need replacing. My car has done 16000 Kms....so I reckon that the track day didn't help much. On the track, I did 3 sessions and each session was about 15-20 mins I think.
I'm keen to go to the sandown event on 30th November but this time am reluctant to use the contis....don't want to have to change them again.

I thought that since I'll be doing track 2-3 times a year, I should get a set of race tires on a set of second hand wheels for those. I've looked around and Hankooks Ventus TD Z221 seem to be popular but a little bit pricey. I would lean towards the medium compound...purely because I'm still new to this and I think I'll cook the soft very quickly....also sandown in November will be quite hot for soft tires.

**kaanage** · 07-10-2015, 05:11 PM

Is there a question here?

All I can say is do it.
Just find a secondhand set of rims for your car. If smaller rims will clear your brakes, you may well find a wider and cheaper selection of semi-slicks are available.

The Z221 is not at all expensive for the performance it provides - just try pricing a comparable semi-slick from Yokohama / Dunlop / Bridgestone. If you want to go cheaper for your first set, St Georges Tyres and others on eBay often have Toyo R888 and Nitto NT01 semi-slicks at good prices

**nat225** · 07-10-2015, 05:13 PM

you may want to try the hybrid tyres first before going to full R compound tyres, such as yokohama ad08r or hankook ventus z222 / rs3.

you can use these on the street, drive to the track and drive back home. and they should last a bit longer than R tyres and they are easier to maintain as opposed to R compound tyres (heat cycle, storage, air pressure, etc...).

as for wheels, pick the lightest possible from a reputable brand from Japan (enkei, rays, etc...) or Italy (oz racing) that is within your budget.

and also if you don't have much negative camber (at least above -2 degrees), you will likely to torture the front tyres shoulder easily and they won't work at their optimum capability.

**Peter Jones** · 07-10-2015, 05:42 PM

I wouldn't mess about with street tyres. Semi slicks are the most significant handling upgrade you can make.

You're always going to chew the corners off street tyres at Sandown.

You can drive to and from the track on semis. They won't get hot enough on the road to heat cycle them.

They sometimes come up cheap second hand on eBay.

**kaanage** · 07-10-2015, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by nat225

you may want to try the hybrid tyres first before going to full R compound tyres, such as yokohama ad08r or hankook ventus z222 / rs3.

you can use these on the street, drive to the track and drive back home. and they should last a bit longer than R tyres and they are easier to maintain as opposed to R compound tyres (heat cycle, storage, air pressure, etc...).

as for wheels, pick the lightest possible from a reputable brand from Japan (enkei, rays, etc...) or Italy (oz racing) that is within your budget.

and also if you don't have much negative camber (at least above -2 degrees), you will likely to torture the front tyres shoulder easily and they won't work at their optimum capability.

Why would you buy "hybrid" tyres and then buy expensive, lightweight wheels and modify the car for camber adjustment?

The OP is just starting out and a set of secondhand OEM rims and semi-slicks will give the best fun for his(her) money.

Arguably, "hybrid" tyres are slightly more versatile but they cost just as much as full semi-slicks and won't handle the front outside shoulder torture as well. They are a reasonable choice only if a second set of rims is out of the question or if you are running in a series that demands them.

**nat225** · 07-10-2015, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by kaanage

Why would you buy "hybrid" tyres and then buy expensive, lightweight wheels and modify the car for camber adjustment?

The OP is just starting out and a set of secondhand OEM rims and semi-slicks will give the best fun for his(her) money.

Arguably, "hybrid" tyres are slightly more versatile but they cost just as much as full semi-slicks and won't handle the front outside shoulder torture as well. They are a reasonable choice only if a second set of rims is out of the question or if you are running in a series that demands them.

my comment is more based on my holistic approach to modifying for track (better tyres need better brakes and better suspension upgrades, to minimise any weakness). R compound tyres need even better brakes otherwise they will get cooked quick.

the OP only intends to do track days 2-3 times a year, so buying R compound tyres is kind of a luxury for "best bang for your buck" as after 2 tracks days (may be just after 1 if the driver is not smooth on track) the shoulders will likely look like this without decent suspension work:

Front camber options?

but it is each to their own

one can have great fun on track with a $15k car and another may not be satisfied until he gets a $214k GT4 Cayman on the track

**kaanage** · 08-10-2015, 09:07 AM

The trap with the "holistic" approach is when is the car "good enough" to track? I know so many VW owners who say "I need to do x, y, z before I can track my car" and never do it.
Reality is that all you need to do is bolt in a fire extinguisher and put on 3 stickers and then drive accordingly when the limits are approached. Everything else may be regarded as a bonus. The semi slicks will stop the OP needing 2 new tyres per track day - especially if he(she) swaps and flips them around enough to even out the wear (between track days - not during unless he/she is bored).

I have camber plates giving > 2 degrees of negative camber on the fronts and the driver side front tyre outside shoulder still looked like the pic you linked after a track day at Sandown (same tyres too). If you drive the car hard enough, at certain tracks, you will knacker the outside shoulder unless you have so much negative camber on the fronts that it is unusable on road.

**Peter Jones** · 08-10-2015, 08:15 PM

You don't need to upgrade anything to run semi slicks. They simply allow you to use whatever brakes and suspension you've got to their limit.

You stop, turn and go better than road.tyres.

They are just so much better than road tyres on the track, the difference is massive.

**grandturismo** · 08-10-2015, 10:07 PM

If you can afford it definitely get yourself a spare set of rims with R compound tyres. I come across some cheap sets on Facebook all the time. Assuming you have a Mk6, there's a set of 4 Denvers with Dunlop Direzzas with a lot left in them for $250. He might even be throwing in the covers. That's money well spent IMO for 2-3 track days a year.