HELP!!! Im scared - gear box/thrust bearing noise

[courtz1976-2dr]

Thanks for the response Jmac

I have been particularly careful on install and it all only lines up one way - the dowels only allow fittment of the pressure plate only they are lined up properly. The part that is rubbing is the studs on the pressure plate itself and can see the rub marks on the new pressure plate (only on the studs) and the damage on the gearbox itself.

When looking at the pressure plates side by side the LuK studs come out less than the sachs plate by about 1mm - the whole lot - flywheel, PP, clutch was bought from germanautoparts as a kit - there is movement in the crank but only a tiny amount that requires levering back and forth from both end of the engine.

Here is a photo of the new pressure plate so you can see what is actually hitting the gearbox. Any other insights would be great, I am goind to take the flywheel off and make sure there is nothing stopping it seating correctly. Surely the clearance between PP and gearbox would be this minimal need to allow for a little wear.

I have taken a photo of 2 studs here and the scuffing on the studs is uniform on all studs

https://picasaweb.google.com/1157007...12242270705714

https://picasaweb.google.com/1157007...12269916992562



I think I am going to be driven to drink, 9:30 isn't too early

[Jmac]

Nice clear pics there mate, I see what you mean. If it were me and you have the original bits i would remove the flywheel and sandwich all the original together and measure it, then do the same with the new one. I get the picture though. Just to recap mate how much of the engine was overhauled??? , i have seen a VERY similar thing the more i read this. I mentioned ive seen the same with 020, but its way different. What i see happening here is the same as ive seen on a Polo Gti. He experienced the same grinding noise. Turns out the thust washer in the crank was mashed up and did in fact cause excessive end float. It ended up with a new engine. The same marks were on the gearbox housing, and it had an 02R transmission, sister unit of the o2A you have.
So how much was doen to the engine mate??
Cheers
Jmac

[courtz1976-2dr]

HI there Jmac,

Again thanks for your time here, much appreciated - with the engine I have only done the timing chain bits (tensioners upper/lower chain and guides) nothing else - the car/engine had only 96000km when I bought it and ran beautiful so really didn;t think it was in any way "tired" Now I have had a chance to do some comparison between old and new clutch/flywheel parts and here are the findings.

I sat the flywheel on an old centre of innner cv joint to give clearance off my desk so that on both measurements have a common reference height and to make sure that I could measure mating surface to mating surface(I hope this makes sense). distance from Crankshaft to Pplate mating surface I mean here.

new setup flywheel approx 58mm off desk
old setup flywheel approx 56.5 off desk

and then we have the additional height of the rivets on the new pressure plate too of approx 1.1mm-1.2mm over the original Luk giving a total of approx (1.5mm+1.1-1.2mm) of 2.6-2.7mm greater distance from crankshaft-flywheel mating surface to outer extent of rivet.

So hmmmmm this is quite a bit really but still not got any concrete clearance figure between the pressure plate and gearbox.

Back to the engine - so again levering from both ends I can see that there is at max .1 of mm backwards and forwards movement I am no mechanic but have rebuilt a couple of engines in the past (on my mk1's mk2's etc) I have felt this amount of movement with brand new thrust bearings etc in place. Is it possible to have had the thrust crushed and still have little this little movement OR is this in fact a lot of movement????

If you are ever in the Agnes Water area I owe you are beer. Thanks for the insights

[Jmac]

End float sounds ok to me mate, and you havre answered my question to how it was before the job and how much you tore the engine down. All sounds like the engine is pretty right mate. How i was hoping you would measure it would be flywheel, fit the pressure plate and clutch to it and measure the sandwich ( make sense) and do the same with the new set up. Sounds like there is a drama with the clutch set up now. Engine should be good especially with the kss..
By the way thats not a lot of movement. It all sounds like it was cool till the new kit was fitted.
Im mobile 90% of the time mate, pardon my ignorance where is Agnes water??? sorry.
If im in the area i dont mind having a squizz.
Cheers
Jmac

[courtz1976-2dr]

Hi there Jimmymac,

Agnes is halfway between bundaberg and gladstone on the coast, nice little place but pretty isolated and noone that knows much about vw's. I thought that the engine should be pretty cool but wasn't 100% considering the problems. To the clutch now the problem with the sandwich method is that the old flywheel (original) has more "meat" on the engine side than the new "lightened version." if I sat both on the desk the mating surface (crank to PP) of the old one doesn't actually touch the desk . The distance cant be measured with calipers because of more "meat" on engine side so this is why I sat both on top of the "spacer" so that the flywheel to crank surface was the point that I measured. The shots hopefully explain the logic. but yes there is definatley some difference there. Now that I have some confidence in the engine I am going to put everything back but with new friction plate (after the old flywheel is cleaned up a bit) and let you know how i go - I am wondering if anyone else has bought this lightened flywheel kit from germanautoparts.com I would be interested if there were any issues.

Photos

https://picasaweb.google.com/1157007...22602275164466

https://picasaweb.google.com/1157007...22610718221010

https://picasaweb.google.com/1157007...22606003209810

[Jmac]

Ah ok , my father in law lives in Branyan. Ill be sure to call next time im up there. Anyway, totally here what you are saying with the sandwich method, makes total sense. Ok whats the part number of the kit you bought??? I use a light kit for the VR on the Polo Gtis wit the 02R box, i get that kit from ECS tuning.
Post the number and ill have a look. Problem must be in the kit somewhere, really never have any issues with clutch installs on the AAA mate, and its a rockhard engine too, keep it serviced though
Cheers
Jmac

[courtz1976-2dr]

HI there Jmac,

Kit no for the scahs kit K70038-2, yeah I calleds sachs too and checked the no on the pressure plate - it must be the o2j might be a little different ot the o2a in this case after hearing that they are exactly the same??? (btw am fitting an o2j and I hope that I haven't been misinformed and this is the root cause of all issues!!!!!)

I had a look again at the old and new gearboxes too and this is all fine same "plunge depth" to that part that is clashing on new gearbox. what a wierd scenario. the only thing that I cant tell for sure is the flywheel parts here is the link

GermanAutoParts.com

Final verdict is that there is close to 3mm difference in the OLD oem clutch/pp/flyweel combo than the new sachs kit - I see that with ecs tuning there is a warning on their stage 3 clutch only to use the oem flywheel I wonder if this is the reason!!!

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...Clutch/ES5863/

Do you think that I have a case for having the parts refunded and maybe my gbox that is now slightly compromised due to this damage???

What a nightmare, all this work done with no hoist and besa blocks and a ****ty little trolley jack!!!

Doing the work tomoz hopefully engine will be back in in a day - got a technique now that I should be able to kill it...Keep you posted

[Jmac]

The 02A clutch housing is the same as the 02J, but having said that the part number differs slightly for 5/6 cylinder vehicles. What did your 02J come out of mate? Ive mixed and matched these on 4 cyl gtis and the likes but havent done it with a 6 mind you. Ive got a AAA in my shed , ill have a look, ive also got a 4 cyl 02R from a Polo, they have the 02J clutch housing, ill see if i can make sense out of it
Jmac

[courtz1976-2dr]

Engines back in YAAAAHOOO and no noise - far out whata mission - started at 10am this morning and engine started at 4pm, still need to stik the front end back on but pah thats the easy stuff oh and driveshafts. Just thought I would let you know - there must be enough clearance for the sachs kit with original flywheel but not the lightened extra 1mm or so but even so I wasn't willing to take the risk so Luk (may the force be with it) went back in. If I ever plan on "upgrading" anything in the future I will be very wary. like they say assumption is the mother of all ^%&*ups.

So anyone interested in a lightened flywheel and sachs pressure plate I dont like my chances.