Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[arcadelt]

I'm interested in what Australian consumer protection laws have in effect to this dieselgate saga.

I hear differing analysis - one side says that there's the potential of not much since you've already got the car ranging towards some compensation because their anti-corporate-citizen actions have affected resale values so some compensation results through to the far edge of full value refund due to being lied about a product which was sold not fit for purchase.

Probably little. The consumer guarantee (which is different to the supplier's warranty) only guarantees that the goods "will work and do what you asked for". Further, from the ACCC website:

Consumer guarantees on products and services

Since 1 January 2011, the following consumer guarantees on products and services apply.

Products must be of acceptable quality, that is:

• safe, lasting, with no faults
• look acceptable
• do all the things someone would normally expect them to do.

Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost.

Products must also:

• match descriptions made by the salesperson, on packaging and labels, and in promotions or advertising
• match any demonstration model or sample you asked for
• be fit for the purpose the business told you it would be fit for and for any purpose that you made known to the business before purchasing
• come with full title and ownership
• not carry any hidden debts or extra charges
• come with undisturbed possession, so no one has a right to take the goods away or prevent you from using them
• meet any extra promises made about performance, condition and quality, such as life time guarantees and money back offers
• have spare parts and repair facilities available for a reasonable time after purchase unless you were told otherwise.

I'd say the only area where you might be able to exercise guarantee rights are safety (the NOx emissions are higher than allowed, so they are unsafely polluting the environment [but then, so is that 1992 model diesel truck being operated by the small business down the road, except, the standards were different in 1990s, so its allowed]) and not matching the description (they said it meets the standard, but it doesn't). Apart from those two, affected car continue to meet all other aspects. Even if you were to make a claim, the fix is a remedy, not compensation, and only for that portion that is problematic. Therefore, you can't claim for the whole car to be replaced if a $1000 software upload will fix it.

With respect to the resale/trade-in issue, it is my opinion that it is altogether too ephemeral to be able to realistically determine whether there has and will continue to be a change in the value of affected cars in the marketplace.

[VW Convert]

"Not fit for purpose" means that the product doesn't perform it's intended function to any reasonable degree.
In this case, a modern passenger car's function is to transport humans with a reasonable degree of safety, in reasonable comfort etc.
Not meeting emissions targets has nothing to do with fitness for purpose.


Sent from my LG-G2 using Tapatalk

There are far too many ifs buts and maybes at this point for there to be any clear picture of what will be the outcome of this situation so what is being written on the subject is pure speculation.

Having said that, I'm sure a lawyer could successfully argue that the "etc." at the end of your definition of a car's function would include "whilst meeting all Australian Design Rules".

Cheers
George

[woofy]

They will certainly remedy them to meet the advertised description for emissions, I think where the lawyers are rubbing their hands together is that by doing this, it may affect power etc.

VW aren't stupid, you bet that they will achieve both but noone is to say the peak power or torque will be in the same RPMs as they were before. If they are shown to use more fuel which is likely, that would be harder to prove.

[dero]

So it's been announced that the fix won't have an affect on performance.
Volkswagen EA189 engine fix to have no effect on performance

I think I'll end up waiting to see user reports on this before making my mind up either way on doing it or not. If I'm to speculate and read into this, I'm guessing that what he's saying here is that the EA189 meets the Euro 5 requirements without the cheat enabled so the software fix to take away the cheat code is how they can get away with not having it affect performance?

[hoi polloi]

So it's been announced that the fix won't have an affect on performance.
Volkswagen EA189 engine fix to have no effect on performance

I read that article... VW said the engine fix should have no effect on performance and that no perfomance effect is their aim. Hope they're right...

Time will tell.

- Anthony

[Amalgam]

So it's been announced that the fix won't have an affect on performance.
Volkswagen EA189 engine fix to have no effect on performance

I think I'll end up waiting to see user reports on this before making my mind up either way on doing it or not. If I'm to speculate and read into this, I'm guessing that what he's saying here is that the EA189 meets the Euro 5 requirements without the cheat enabled so the software fix to take away the cheat code is how they can get away with not having it affect performance?

It is my opinion that there is no easy ECU update that will reduce the NOx emissions, while maintaining performance, economy, durability and servicing schedules. I agree with dero, that it is most likely that VW will reflash our ECU to remove the cheat code and force our cars to run in emission mode all the time. If VW could have, they would have done it before. It would have prevented this scandal, reputational derision, and at least 6 BILLION other reasons.


“That is the target.” Diess said when asked if performance of the EA189 engines will remain the same as before any fix.

“We are very confident to achieve that for the most of the cars, in some cases we are still working on options.”


It is my opinion that the above quote from Diess is full of corporate double speak and full of wriggle room.

As stated in an earlier post on this thread, I am happy with the economy and performance of our Passat, and although I am angry at VW deceit and its effects on the air we breath, like dero, I will be waiting for others to experiment on their cars first.

[Amalgam]

VW offers dealers a price guarantee on used diesel vehicles

Volkswagen of America, seeking to contain the damage from its emissions scandal, will offer to buy back some used diesel vehicles from its U.S. dealers at pre-crisis prices

VW floats amnesty to workers who provide details of emissions violations, report says

Volkswagen will offer staff amnesty from getting fired if they reveal to hired investigators what they know about the rigging of diesel emission tests, German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung reported on Friday.

[theresanothersteve]

At the end of the day I think it will boil down to the following (in order):
1. Satisfying the legislator - getting the cars to meet the emissions figures in the real world, or as close as practicable.
2. Satisfying the shareholder - finding the cheapest way to meet the emissions figures.
3. Satisfying the dealer network, they are the ultimate return customer.
4. Satisfying the customer - retaining the best performance possible while satisfying the legislator and the shareholder.

3 and 4 are subtly different, but a fix that sends the dealers broke because of the demand on their resources would not be in VAG's best interest. They need the dealers to sell the cars and what dealer in their right mind would commit to becoming a VAG dealership at the moment?

[Ryeman]

Audi buyers think this is only a 'plebeian' issue and will continue with their superior noses in the air

[Eaglehawk]

Class action against Volkswagen Australia could recoup $5 billion

Does that mean we need to sign up with that law firm? Or being a VW diesel owner I'm part of it already?