Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[Transporter]

In all likelihood, power will be lost & running costs will increase.

if that was true, then every APR and other brand tunes would have to be illegal.
...and a crime against the environment, how some tries to paint it.

[brad]

if that was true, then every APR and other brand tunes would have to be illegal.
...and a crime against the environment, how some tries to paint it.

When you buy a tune, you know what you are buying and what the trade-offs are.

I'm not sure why you folk defending VWs actions don't comprehend that the product was promoted, marketed and sold as being one thing and the reality was totally different.

I'll try an analogy you might understand.

In 1985 there were several Austrian wine producers caught adding antifreeze (diethylene glycol) to dry wine to make it sweeter. This was to appeal to the German market. Diethylene Glycol is toxic to humans but you'd have to drink 28 bottles of wine per day for 2 weeks for it to be fatal.

The wine was marketed and sold without telling anyone about the toxic substance (which wouldn't have killed anyone). Using your moral yardstick, that's OK?

Or, hypothetically, if you bought Diet Coke thinking there was 40 calories per can and later you found out they'd lied and there was the same 140 calories as normal Coke - that would be OK?

[Rawcpoppa]

Over the years, I've had customers who haven't paid what's owed for my hard work and goods costing me a fortune. Typically, they're scumbag scammers or white collar criminals. To get the law to provide justice is a joke. Unless you're happy to spend a fortune to get solicitors involved.

If you're referring to VW & the emissions breach, your point is moot. They didn't rip you off, treat you unfairly nor provide you with a product that didn't perform as expected.

Your first paragraph has nothing to do with mine with respect to companies operating shadily. Those customers who rip you off deserve retribution as well.

Your second paragraph is moot. VW sold people cars that they promoted as cleaner than they really are. It may not be tangible but trust for one has been lost. Their actions affect resale value as well. Not that important I agree. However what about those who will need to use more adblue for example after the recall? How would the recall affect the long term usage of the car is still up for debate as well. There was a reason VW didn't just do a software update before to fix this. It's not unbelievable that detrimental effects post recall may be observed.

I understand what you're saying in that some persons are joining just for joining sake but I believe it's too early to paint all the class action individuals with one brush simply because no one knows for sure the outcomes of the recall.

[Ryeman]

Really? You can't see any immediate & future losses?

Trade-in value of the car is immediately lost.

In all likelihood, power will be lost & running costs will increase.

Quite!

If VW want to deal with all the demand/supply issues from this disaster they should immediately declare their confidence in their own product by announcing an increase in the warranty period for ALL VAG products from 3 to 5 years and 100 to 160K
If they're sooo good, I dare you!
(more servicing income as well)

[arcadelt]

I'm not sure why you folk defending VWs actions don't comprehend that the product was promoted, marketed and sold as being one thing and the reality was totally different.

Different yes, but not totally different!

The analogies you cite paint a picture of products that are fundamentally changed as a result of deceit, but a Volkswagen car is not fundamentally changed. The looks are the same, the colour is the same, the handling is the same, the comfort is the same, etc, etc...and even after the fix is applied, the car will not be totally different, but may be somewhat different with slightly less fuel economy and/or power (but probably not so much that the average person will notice), yet it will be cleaner too - so on balance, perhaps one could argue a 1 to 2% difference between marketing and reality. I'd argue that the standard deviation between marketing and reality for most products advertised today (wow, have a look at the cosmetic industry for example) would ordinarily be greater than that range anyway, so in my mind makes the actually difference nearly negligible.

The question then that remains to be answered (and I haven't seen it anywhere yet) is what was the cumulative impact of the extra emissions to both people and the environment. This links to an owners expectations of virtuousness, and is where the difference between marketing and reality could be tangible - but oh so difficult to measure.

[arcadelt]

Really? You can't see any immediate & future losses?

Trade-in value of the car is immediately lost.

In all likelihood, power will be lost & running costs will increase.

Actually, I can't. Trade-in values are constantly fluctuating, based on all sorts of factors, the most influential of which are odometer readings and age. There may be a dip in the values while the 'crisis' is obvious and present, but a new equilibrium will be found once the cars are fixed and the issue fades from memories. The lesson, which is the same in the stock market, is don't be a distressed seller and lock in your losses.

With respect to power and running costs, these change too as cars age, so will you really notice in time?

[arcadelt]

Their actions affect resale value as well.

How could you possibly measure that when there are so many other variables swirling around resale/trade in values, such as age, distance travelled, the number of cars in the marketplace and economic factors - there is no way to conduct a controlled experiment to put a figure on it.

[Ryeman]

Different yes, but not totally different!

The analogies you cite paint a picture of products that are fundamentally changed as a result of deceit, but a Volkswagen car is not fundamentally changed. The looks are the same, the colour is the same, the handling is the same, the comfort is the same, etc, etc...and even after the fix is applied, the car will not be totally different, but may be somewhat different with slightly less fuel economy and/or power (but probably not so much that the average person will notice), yet it will be cleaner too - so on balance, perhaps one could argue a 1 to 2% difference between marketing and reality. I'd argue that the standard deviation between marketing and reality for most products advertised today (wow, have a look at the cosmetic industry for example) would ordinarily be greater than that range anyway, so in my mind makes the actually difference nearly negligible.

The question then that remains to be answered (and I haven't seen it anywhere yet) is what was the cumulative impact of the extra emissions to both people and the environment. This links to an owners expectations of virtuousness, and is where the difference between marketing and reality could be tangible - but oh so difficult to measure.

If you're prepared to underwrite the EGR's longevity post 'adjustment' I'm on board.
IT's the ONE reason that VW resist longer warranty periods......they aren't confident it'll last......
VW, you are being challenged to back up your talk!

[arcadelt]

by announcing an increase in the warranty period for ALL VAG products from 3 to 5 years and 100 to 160K

A great idea, but one that only benefits those that have cars that are less than 5 years old. The issue affects cars from as far back as 2008, so assuming the increased warranty started today, owners of cars from 2008 to 2010 would get no benefit out of this proposal.

[Rawcpoppa]

How could you possibly measure that when there are so many other variables swirling around resale/trade in values, such as age, distance travelled, the number of cars in the marketplace and economic factors - there is no way to conduct a controlled experiment to put a figure on it.

To think that the negative press has not had a detrimental effect on resale value is to be naive regardless of all the other factors you mentioned. Don't take my word for it. It's already affecting posters in the US with dealers giving ridiculously low trade in values on TDI vehicles specifically.

Don't take my word for it again: KBB: VW diesel prices have dropped 16%

I do not think those price drops are coincidence considering all the other things around resale.