Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[bluey]

Your posts generally come across as pro VW and anti persons who have issues, legit or not, with VW

Fire extinguishers on. No personal attacks. Play the ball and not the man.

[Rawcpoppa]

Ok. Fair enough.

[Swallowtail]

I cant really see the problem. I don't think it's cheating. Did the rules say the car had to perform the same on the road as during the test?

Holden do it with a Bi-Model exhaust. It's quiet to meet noise emissions but drive it out the door and hit the loud pedal and it's exactly that. So is Holden being fined as well? For cheating emission tests?

Funny post....

To answer the questions

1. Yes
2. No - as their cars do not break regulations (noise or otherwise, regardless of how wide open or gentle you are with the "loud pedal")
3. See 2 above.

Explanation...

The "rules" in the USA specify allowable emissions. They don't specify "on the road" or "in a test". The test is a mechanism used to see if the cars meet the regulations, not a subject of emission rules by itself. The rules also say that attempting to bypass the conditions of the rules is bad and will result in nasty consequences.

Let's use your (really bad) example...

Australia have rules on how noisy cars can be (thank goodness). Hypothetically, Holden make a you-beaut-ute that in normal road use breaks those rules. BUT the hypothetical car has a clever camera that picks up on police uniforms holding dB meters, and makes the car super quiet when it triggers.

Were a non-uniformed police officer or Transport inspector to dB test it and discover the dastardly deed, the car would be defected, Holden would be fined, and cars would be recalled and have to be fixed to meet the pesky rules.

Simple really.

[joel0407]

I don't know what the rules are now in Australia and I'm off to bed so it'll have to wait until tonight for me to look. Many years ago it they said a vehicle had to be under a certain noise limit at when reved at 3000rpm. I don't know how this worked with large trucks that would never reach that higher revs but as for Holden all they need to do is have the butterfly in their exhaust closed until the engine reaches 3000rpm then it can open and be as loud as they think customers can handle. So what's the difference, VW knew how the tests are completed and once that criteria is exceeded the engine pumps more pollution that permissible in a few US states.

I understand the fraudulent claims in miss leading customers but they are not exceeding the Australian Standards.

[Swallowtail]

I understand the fraudulent claims in miss leading customers but they are not exceeding the Australian Standards.

Now THAT is a relevant point that you make, but does need a bit of additional information. Regardless of whether or not the cars' emissions breach standards, the cars were sold as meeting a set of specifications, including levels of emissions. The emissions were understated, so the approved car specs were false. That is illegal.

As yet we have no idea what (if anything) VW Aus will do. The cars are potentially not actually in breach of Australian emissions rules - I don't think that has been fully tested yet (someone correct me please if I am wrong?).

What is irrefutably the case is that the cars (millions of them) breach European and USA rules, and do so deliberately. Hence the scandal. What impact and potential "fixes" that means for us here I don't think anyone can say yet. VW may choose to apply the same fixes here as they do overseas, or they may not...

[OilBurna]

Interesting comments from the CEO of Glasses Guide in the Herald Sun this morning re the software fix and resale values and also the NRMA have come out swinging against VW Aust. imho VW had plenty of chances to come clean earlier and they only did when the evidence was irrefutable.


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[Tuan]

I understand the fraudulent claims in miss leading customers but they are not exceeding the Australian Standards.

Has this been made fact yet by VWA ?

[harlie]

....
. VW may choose to apply the same fixes here as they do overseas, or they may not...

Given how they treated us in respect to the PD injector issue, I will bet VW will do as little as possible - actually, I bet VW will do only as the GOV authorities demand they do and no more.

Remember the injectors were replaced on mass in other markets several years before they would even admit an issue here - I know I was charged for mine as there was "definitely not an issue with any other cars" - which 2 minutes online reading proved incorrect.... Eventually we got a recall but that was only after the all the publicity after the freeway death which ironically had nothing to do with it.

VWA will do nothing unless gov authorities threaten bans or big sanctions - or maybe class action. Sure can't see adblue retrofits.

[OilBurna]

I agree Harlie hoping also that the Govt had some balls and imposes maximum fines. Also plenty of other known issues with the B6 Passat including the steering column lock etc


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[wai]

The "rules" in the USA specify allowable emissions. They don't specify "on the road" or "in a test"

The emission rules specify limits that must be achieved while operating on the official drive cycle as in:

Light-duty vehicles are certified for compliance with emission standards by measuring their tailpipe emissions during rigorously-defined driving cycles that simulate a typical driving pattern.

The tests carried out by the researchers were conducted using an arbitrary driving route. There is nothing to verify that it is a route that simulates a typical driving pattern. The researchers then applied the limits to be achieved in the drive cycle to their arbitrary route.

The reason it has to be done on a dynamometer is because there is no convenient way to gather the samples in normal driving, and there is consistency. You could drive the alternative route repeatedly and come up with a different result on every attempt.

Oh this is why the California EPA took no action, even though they knew about the results passed, "for weeks" as has been reported. It is only when VW actually rolled over and said they had intentionally put code in that could be considered a "defeat device" that they took action as under the certification, a "defeat device" is specifically prohibited. Even here, a "defeat device" is not a physical device that is plugged it or otherwise connected, but anything that might lead to the disabling of emission controls. The thing is that the DPF and catalytic converter are both still as operational as in the official test. The only things that can be adjusted are the fuel injection, EGR and turbocharger boost.