Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[Ryeman]

I'm not talking about achieving the same specs in the brochure. I'm talking about the fix actually hobbling other aspects of the engine that will in fact not match what the current output of the engine is currently achieving. (Whether it is power output, fuel economy, or torque curve...)

It appears their (VW's) parsimonious use of AdBlue was only because it was to make the detected 'test cycle' clean.
Now they are suggesting more will be needed for the whole time to fix the emissions problem.....that would require a v large tank AND to be filled regularly......
Think second hand values for a start......!!!

[wai]

I seem to recall in Europe there is a requirement to "Add Blue"
I assume This requires a separate tank for this additive?
Plus the added problem where to obtain this wonderful fluid!
After all, this problem affects All small diesels. Not just VW
But in America the requirement to top up with a special additive would cause a
tremendous logistical problem regarding supply.

The thing is that VW decided that it was going to differentiate itself from the likes of Mercedes Benz and BMW, both of which are only able to achieve it by using AdBlue also referred to as DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid). They couldn't achieve the emissions targets AND provide good performance and fuel economy. So, they decided to go down this path, which was extremely foolish.

The AdBlue is injected into a catalytic converter where the urea in the presence of a catalyst sees the NOx split into Nitrogen and Oxygen. Yes, it is a hassle, but it is what it is and if you want to play in that sand pit, it means you have to do it.

[Ryeman]

According to the report if its a storm in a tea cup I would imagine the reported possible US $18 Billion fine would smart along with the repairs as well . But like Umai I am staying with the brand even if sometimes it is like a messy divorce , lots of money being spent along with the heartache .

$US7.3 BILLION to fix just half a million U.S. registered cars = $US14,600 per car if my maths are right.
11 MILLION affected cars world wide admitted by VW management.
BIG ISSUE
BIG COST

[Ryeman]

Hopefully this is sorted out soon and isolated to the United States and not a global issue for Volkswagen:

US accuses Volkswagen of illegal pollution


Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution | Business | The Guardian


EPA: Volkswagen used ‘defeat device’ to illegally skirt air-pollution controls - The Washington Post


Feds allege widespread Volkswagen cheating on clean-air rules


Volkswagen, Audi admit to cheating pollution tests in the US

VW admit 11 MILLION cars world wide need to be fixed.

[theresanothersteve]

$US7.3 BILLION to fix just half a million U.S. registered cars = $US14,600 per car if my maths are right.
11 MILLION affected cars world wide admitted by VW management.
BIG ISSUE
BIG COST

From what I've read today your figure (USD14,600) is the amount VAG can be fined per vehicle, nothing to do with rectification costs...

[Ryeman]

From what I've read today your figure (USD14,600) is the amount VAG can be fined per vehicle, nothing to do with rectification costs...

I would think the fines figure is months, if not years, away at this time.
This is just the start.

[minke]

From what I've read today your figure (USD14,600) is the amount VAG can be fined per vehicle, nothing to do with rectification costs...

The federal fine is $37,000 per car. Then you've got state fines. California being the biggest headache for VW.

[wai]

Is there any inclination for any investigation in Australia?

It all has to do with credibility - very easy to destroy but very difficult to regain.

What has regulators around the world concerned is that if VW has done this in the most regulated and litigious market, what may they have done in other jurisdictions. Also, US certification is accepted as evidence of compliance in some jurisdictions.

It is going to take VW releasing the source code of its systems to the regulators so that the regulators can pore over it to establish whether there are any other intentional or inadvertent bits of code that could do other things. This does not mean making it public, but I believe will be one of the new requirements for all car manufacturers in the US at least, and probably globally.

But putting this into perspective, it does not mean that the VW diesels are filthy dirty. A 10 year old car probably produces as much, if not more NOx than the VW diesels.

No one seems to bat an eyelid about the roughly 4 times increase of NOx emissions when using E10 over standard ULP, and there are many brand new diesels running around in Australia without a DPF or EGR or NOx catalytic converter. This is because our regulations are not as severe as those in the US, AND in many cases, they are not classified as passenger cars.

So, there is no excusing VW for what they did and the book must be thrown at them, just that we do not want to be running around like Chicken Little either. We also do not want to go back to the days of the 3 wise monkeys and cover our eyes, ears, and mouth either.

[theresanothersteve]

Hopefully this is sorted out soon and isolated to the United States and not a global issue for Volkswagen:

US accuses Volkswagen of illegal pollution


Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution | Business | The Guardian


EPA: Volkswagen used ‘defeat device’ to illegally skirt air-pollution controls - The Washington Post


Feds allege widespread Volkswagen cheating on clean-air rules


Volkswagen, Audi admit to cheating pollution tests in the US

Thanks for the links.

After reading I'm not sure what will happen in Australia.

There is little doubt in my mind the code will be present in Australian deliveries but I don't know what impact it will have unless it contravenes Australian Design Rules. Do vehicles have to meet set emission levels and does the VW meet those levels with the cheat disabled?

Then there is the issue of advertising claims, could it be reasonably seen that people were buying the affected vehicles based on emissions data? This, and other advertising claims will likely be the bailiwick of the ACCC.

[wai]

And what does the "fix" involve? ECU reprogramming? Does that mean we lose power and/or economy? Can we refund our vehicles? (The specs now don't match what we bought...)

Well, seeing as the vehicles passed with the emission controls all enabled, this is what will be done.

From what has been said, it will result in worse performance and economy. Maybe they will offer to upgrade them to AdBlue, although there might be a cost.