Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[arcadelt]

frantic, I hope you are having fun, because I'm having a ball - and the bonus is that it's far better than Sudoku at keeping my old mind active.

As I have stated before, I am not defending VW, but hoping to hold those who are making wild, unreasonable or factually incorrect claims to account. Anyway, allow me to once again point out how some of your facts and logic are wrong.

To put it in perspective, VW sold around 50-65,000 cars a year into oz, so since 2008 when the motor Ecu scam was started your looking at over 350,000 cars. If 60% where diesel you have put more than double the total number of semi's Nox emmissions into our suburbs.

From news.com.au on 08 Oct 15:

There are 54,745 VW passenger cars, 17,256 VW vans and utes, 14,028 Audis and 5148 Skoda cars made from 2009 to 2015 that will be caught up in the recall.

That's about 91,000, and admittedly growing, but nowhere near 350,000 x 60% or 210,000.

I've posted the actual website from the university that did the tests that states 35 times eu5 which is 2-3 times worse than a truck ,yet we still have deniers trying to defend.

As you also quoted from the website you linked to back in Post #731:

Results of the study conducted by WVU’s Center for Alternative Fuels, Engines and Emissions, or CAFEE, found that nitrogen oxide emissions...from two Volkswagen light-duty diesel engines exceeded the EPA’s Tier 2-Bin 5 standard. One vehicle exceeded the standard by a factor of 15 to 35 and the other by a factor of 5 to 20.

Please note that was the "EPA’s Tier 2-Bin 5 standard", not Euro 5 standard: there is a difference.

This [your post at #731] was in response to another poster who put up a chart, with no links, 😉 claiming eu trucks had a limit of 2units but chart only showed a multiple of 20 times epa limit at 1.5units. Now with the university's own web page stating 35 times the link less chart is kind of pointless.

I was the one who posted that table at post #730 without a link, but before that at post #453 where I explained that it came from the actual CAFEE report that originally led to the breaking of the scandal (for reference, the table is on page 65). Of course, no one is expecting anyone to go back more than a few pages in a thread as long as this, so I apologise for not providing better context to the table at post #730. That said, I didn't know that your post at #731 was in response to that table, because you quoted Transporter's post at #726 and I missed the reference to the table because you incorrectly attributed its posting to Transporter.

What's really important about that table is the total values, which, as you say, only shows:

a multiple of 8 in the test results, which at 1.5 Gm is still within 30% of a semi limited to 2gm.

However, what you haven't realised (as stated on page 5 of the report) is:

The EPA Tier 2 emissions standard requires each LDV/LDT vehicle manufacturer to meet acorporate average NOx standard of 0.07g/mile (0.04 g/km) for the fleet of vehicles being sold fora given model year.

That's 0.04 g/km for US EPA Tier 2-Bin 5 standards, in comparison to 0.18 g/km for Euro 5 standards, so:

Simple maths

35 x 0.04 = 1.4, which I said before:

at no times do the Euro 5 VW NOx emissions go near the 2.0 g/km that is the Euro V standard.

There are, however, a few facts that you probably got right:

you have put more than double the total number of semi's Nox emmissions into our suburbs

I haven't researched it or done the maths, but this could be true merely due to the fact that there are many more cars on the road than truck and buses.

Also:

Now last time I checked there was one semi that drove down my street about 3 years ago, but there are several vw's going past hourly.

That's one fact I certainly can't argue with, as it's your street. I, unfortunately, live on a main road, so lots of big trucks and Volkswagens go past my place, and I can tell you which one I prefer: the Volkswagens.

[arcadelt]

Yes I used the U.S. bin standards, but also referenced the U.S. truck standards and linked them, which clearly demonstrated a 1.5 ton tdi putting out the equivalent Nox of a 40-60ton prime mover! It's 0.07 not 0.04, so it equals 2.45g, suggest you use a ruler to read the chart as your quoting bin4.
http://www3.epa.gov/greenvehicles/do.../420f13022.pdf

Sure, but if you used anything other than the 0.04 g/km used in the CAFEE report, you cannot apply the x35, because that is where it came from.

[arcadelt]

Sorry, off topic, but do any of the mods know why my post count is stuck on 68? I reckon I've done more that 68 posts in this thread alone.

[AdamD]

Sorry, off topic, but do any of the mods know why my post count is stuck on 68? I reckon I've done more that 68 posts in this thread alone.

Posts in this section don't contribute to your post count.

[arcadelt]

Posts in this section don't contribute to your post count.

Well, that's clinched then - I won't be posting here anymore

[Transporter]

Well, that's clinched then - I won't be posting here anymore

arcadelt, don't worry about the post count. It doesn't mean anything.

You're a great contributor to this thread

[Idle]

Why worry about post counts anyway?

You post when you've got a question, when you can help, when you've got a grievance, when you can add something meaningful to the discussion or, when all else fails, just for the hell of it.

[arcadelt]

Why worry about post counts anyway?

You post when you've got a question, when you can help, when you've got a grievance, when you can add something meaningful to the discussion or, when all else fails, just for the hell of it.

Hardly worried...but, I do take more notice when someone with hundreds and thousands of posts makes a contribution, especially when it is an answer to a car related question or problem, because they have obviously been a solid member of the community and I presume that they know what they are talking about. I've only been a VW owner for a year, but I'd like to link that one day I might fall into that category. The forum is a helpful resource, and I value that.

Anyway, enough about me - lets get back to the discussion at hand.

[Rawcpoppa]

Hardly worried...but, I do take more notice when someone with hundreds and thousands of posts makes a contribution, especially when it is an answer to a car related question or problem, because they have obviously been a solid member of the community and I presume that they know what they are talking about. I've only been a VW owner for a year, but I'd like to link that one day I might fall into that category. The forum is a helpful resource, and I value that.

Anyway, enough about me - lets back to the discussion at hand.

After a while you will realize that post count isn't that relevant with respect to trusting one's posts. You'll notice after researching things yourself over time which posters are really helpful.

Anyways while browsing another forum one post caught my eye with respect to VW sorting things out. Many VW diesel owners posted better than sticker MPG. That is they benefitted from the cheat so to speak. In light of VW offering cash some owners are not impressed with the size of the offer. Would owners who benefitted initially be willing to pay back for the better fuel econ they initially enjoyed? Doubtful.

[OilBurna]

VW engineers admitted rigging CO2 emissions: Bild | Reuters