Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

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Originally Posted by Eaglen00b

Fair enough. But deception is still deception. The world awaits what legal repercussions follow from VW's conduct.

Plenty of concerned VAG diesel owners out there no doubt watching very closely.

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Can't say I'm concerned as a diesel owner. As long as the car doesn't break down and I get my 1000km/tank in Sydney traffic I'm happy.

While monitoring the situation, I am very sceptical that this has come out of California which has the strictest emissions guidelines in the US and Mr Tesla has come out beating his chest over it.

Also, I've just finished a subject for my MBA on ethics, guidelines and sustainability. I agree that VW haven't been transparent and will pay the price for their behaviour through fines, lost sales and customers but I hated that subject/lecturer so I hope VW sends me a "BACK OFF, NITROUS OXIDE POLLUTER" bumper sticker so I get BMW drivers off my back in traffic.

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Originally Posted by centralaxis

Can't say I'm concerned as a diesel owner. As long as the car doesn't break down and I get my 1000km/tank in Sydney traffic I'm happy.

While monitoring the situation, I am very sceptical that this has come out of California which has the strictest emissions guidelines in the US and Mr Tesla has come out beating his chest over it.

Also, I've just finished a subject for my MBA on ethics, guidelines and sustainability. I agree that VW haven't been transparent and will pay the price for their behaviour through fines, lost sales and customers but I hated that subject/lecturer so I hope VW sends me a "BACK OFF, NITROUS OXIDE POLLUTER" bumper sticker so I get BMW drivers off my back in traffic.

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

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Bimmer drivers? Try self righteous Hybrid vehicle drivers and push bikers.

My other car is a 1995 Normally aspirated, old tech, 2.8 tonne 4.2L diesel 4x4. Punch the accelerator, and watch me disappear into a massive black sooty cloud. NOx? CO2? Yippee ki yay munterflucker! :P

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Originally Posted by Amalgam

I am not here to get into a full and frank discussion.

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Then why participate in this discussion thread? You seem to have posted something decently detailed and frank in opinion.

Anyhoo...

On another forum someone searched up the emissions requirements of Australia and we're running Euro 5 standards. Based on the calculation of the NOx emissions regulations in the US of 0.07g and the statement that the engines were pushing out up to 35x more, the emissions of the TDI engines would breach Euro 5 standards, thus failing our regulations too.

VW Australia are wisely "waiting on word from HQ" which I interpret to saying "holy spit", we need time to formulate the plan on how to manage rectification in recall and what has to occur in recalling the vehicles.

If it's a fix an inclusion of AdBlue, retrofitting the equipment, routing the cables and coding the ECU and factoring the labour costs in achieving this process vs paying owner's compensation and/or fines due to breaching emissions regulations...

As an owner of an affected vehicle, I will sit tight and wait for an announcement.

Vehicle emissions are a minor contribution to the overall emissions that gets belched out into the atmosphere. As linked in through above posts, cows and ships put more pollution into our atmosphere. Airlines buzzing around belch lots of exhaust out as well. I recall reading an article saying that when the Icelandic volcano was erupting and it halted the majority of flights around Europe, people said that this was good for the environment without so many flights however the facts were that the volcano was dishing out more emissions than all the jets combined.

Same goes for Formula 1... all this money had been spent in the last couple of years getting hybrid powertrains to go racing with and the net sum of it all was a reduction in fuel consumption and exhaust emissions for the whole calendar year's race which would be more than made up for in one jumbo jet carting all the equipment around the world to let the teams go racing in.

It's ultimately a storm in a teacup. A decently sized teacup and a very personal teacup but still a very small storm for the overall effects that come across towards the environment.

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Originally Posted by dero

On another forum someone searched up the emissions requirements of Australia and we're running Euro 5 standards. Based on the calculation of the NOx emissions regulations in the US of 0.07g and the statement that the engines were pushing out up to 35x more, the emissions of the TDI engines would breach Euro 5 standards, thus failing our regulations too.

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But this level is when operated with the drive cycle specified in the standard.

People are jumping on the x35 figure and saying that VW has to comply with that. This only has to happen if that level of emissions are measured when undertaking the standard test with all conditions set out in the test.

This is where VW made a huge error of judgement. They decided to take the attitude that it is better to admit something, even if not true rather than protest innocence and have the matter be long and drawn out.

All a car manufacturer has to do is meet the requirements of the standard they have to meet. No manufacturer can be expected to meet the emission levels in the standard, but "never mind about all the other conditions of the standard". The tests conducted by the researchers are outside the standard ANY vehicle manufacturer has to meet, and are not well documented.

Even when the original drive cycle was developed in the very early 1970s, it was NEVER concluded that once certified, the vehicles would achieve the same emission levels in normal use. The standard set levels that were progressively below the raw data obtained when the standard was developed. It was argued that if there was a 10% reduction over the base levels measured using the drive cycle, in service, there was a good chance that there would be a similar percentage reduction in emission levels.

Of course, things have moved on from carburettors, mechanical distributors and a single ignition coil to now where is it multiple computers and a whole mess of sensors. About the only variable item on an engine was the mechanical/vacuum advance in the distributor, and a bi-metallic spring that directed heat from the exhaust to the intake to help fuel vapourise when operated cold. As the engine warmed up, the spring moved a vane away from the base of the inlet manifold.

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Vehicle emissions are a minor contribution to the overall emissions that gets belched out into the atmosphere. As linked in through above posts, cows and ships put more pollution into our atmosphere. Airlines buzzing around belch lots of exhaust out as well. I recall reading an article saying that when the Icelandic volcano was erupting and it halted the majority of flights around Europe, people said that this was good for the environment without so many flights however the facts were that the volcano was dishing out more emissions than all the jets combined.

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True. Much is made about the emissions being "belched" out by these tainted diesels. Even if there were NO controls over diesel exhaust emissions from cars, there would be no measurable change in NOx levels in the most heavily polluted areas.

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It's ultimately a storm in a teacup. A decently sized teacup and a very personal teacup but still a very small storm for the overall effects that come across towards the environment.

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I think that the situation has been made a lot worse that it is by poorly handled PR. I did some work for a company that had a run in with an environment agency. They had done nothing wrong. In fact the air leaving the facility was cleaner and contained less odours than the air drawn into the facility. The mistake they made was to throw their doors open and say they had "nothing to hide". Two years later and after spending over $1,000,000 on lawyers, the agency accepted they had got it wrong and there was no rogue discharge. They handed back the $500,000 penalty and offered a handshake and said "no hard feelings"! The company has never rebounded from that.

There i another ICCT study 2014 with more vehicles than the original
[Press release] New ICCT study shows real-world exhaust emissions from modern diesel cars seven times higher than EU, US regulatory limits | International Council on Clean Transportation

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Originally Posted by wai

But this level is when operated with the drive cycle specified in the standard.

People are jumping on the x35 figure and saying that VW has to comply with that. This only has to happen if that level of emissions are measured when undertaking the standard test with all conditions set out in the test.

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Wholly agree. The testing is so contrived it doesn't meet up with real world scenarios. The same can be said about the fuel efficiency cycle claims made by manufacturers about their vehicles.

VW's PR in this has been horrible. It continues to be horrible in allowing to be beaten from all sides. The trolls have come out of their caves and have gotten onto their megahorns. They need to improve some PR and at least now deliver some truths to the equation so it can get rid of a lot of the speculation being chucked around making for more panties being tied into knots.

VW emissions scandal: VW to recall 11 million cars worldwide | Autocar

Volkswagen has confirmed that 5m of the 11m cars affected are VWs. In a statement, the firm said: "The internal evaluation revealed that approximately five million Volkswagen Passenger Cars brand vehicles are affected worldwide. Certain models and model years of these vehicles (such as the sixth generation Volkswagen Golf, the seventh generation Volkswagen Passat and the first generation Volkswagen Tiguan) are equipped exclusively with type EA189 diesel engines.

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Originally Posted by Amalgam

VW emissions scandal: VW to recall 11 million cars worldwide | Autocar

Volkswagen has confirmed that 5m of the 11m cars affected are VWs. In a statement, the firm said: "The internal evaluation revealed that approximately five million Volkswagen Passenger Cars brand vehicles are affected worldwide. Certain models and model years of these vehicles (such as the sixth generation Volkswagen Golf, the seventh generation Volkswagen Passat and the first generation Volkswagen Tiguan) are equipped exclusively with type EA189 diesel engines.

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GoAutoNews
article today has the company referring to only 5 rather than the previous 11 million.......why mention 11 million?
It would be even more disingenuous if "the company" was trying to ignore some of its own products as not being of much importance.
My read is that the total number has been downgraded across ALL brands.

Also read Golf AllTrack article.

Well my purchase details say my 2011 125TDI has a CFG motor. so where does that leave me.

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Originally Posted by dero

The same can be said about the fuel efficiency cycle claims made by manufacturers about their vehicles.

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The fuel efficiency sycle was based on the emission cycle, and had the same reasoning behind it. It was never meant to be a true reading of the fuel efficiency a buyer might expect on the road. It was there to give a method of comparing the fuel efficiency of vehicles by putting them through exactly the same cycle. Again, it was developed in the days of carburettors and simple engine systems.

Unfortunately, it makes for good headlines as in the Telegraph today when Nick Xenophon has called for fines for breaching the emission rules. Unfortunately, the public do not know what's what, and are easily led by sensational headlines and people pushing an agenda trying to bolster their standing.