VAG on reliability, parts & service costs

[2009fsi]

Complaints by VW branded vehicles in particular, about reliability & ownership costs must be starting to hurt the VW stable.
From what I can see, these DSG issues seem to plague VWs, but not Skoda to anywhere near the same extent. Most of these problems seem to me to be in smaller cars & particularly those with a torquey turbocharged motor in front of a 7 speed DSG. As far as my 3.6V6 Supurb goes, I've wonder if this has to do with the differnet engine mapping used by Skoda for the R36 engine; 191kW with a wider torque band, rather than the 225kW peakier toque curve of the Passat. The Supurb is also stretched which makes me wonder if the longer wheel base might also contribute with the longer drive train not being close to a harmonic length. Pure speculation on my part.
Seperately, I see VW is giving customers in China a TEN year guarantee on thier DSGs. Looking about on Briskoda, it is clear VW discriminates on price, specs, warranty period, parts & service costs in its different markets. That suggests they who scream loudest get a better deal. Particularly if you are a market the size of China.

The managing director of Volkswagen Australia, Anke Koeckler, admits being concerned by customer feedback and a study that ranked Volkswagen last in a study of Australian car buyers last year.
"It is a worry for us, and we take it seriously," she says.
"And that's the reason why we're putting a lot of focus right now in those fields.
"We have employed a lot of people in the after-sales area.”
Volkswagen's national head office in western Sydney is now home to a customer care centre that reports directly to Volkswagen's top brass, including Koeckler.

That HQ at Chullora houses offices, bulk store & a call centre, so I'm not quite sure how that will help improve reliability.

I note she went one to address the issue of parts & servicing ripoffs through the dealer network, undoubtedly working against a RRP 'agreement' with VAG.

Koeckler has also moved to address another common complaint against Volkswagen.
The brand is currently examining whether it could introduce fixed-price servicing across the range in a bid to ease fears motorists hold about the cost of European car ownership.
Koeckler says her team are doing their sums to make sure Volkswagen is "not ripping off our loyal customers".
"It would actually reflect the honest service costs and parts costs," she says.
"We have to make sure that we actually get new customers from different brands, and those customers might at first have a perception that we are too expensive.
"[But] I think when it comes to Volkswagen it's probably more a matter of perception than reality."

I have my doubts about this being anything more than empty words though. Note the final sentence of her statement. I read it as her saying she doesn't think the problem is anything more than a beatup to be addressed through PR. Why she had to add that final sentence suggests t me she isn't too sharp. Even if she thinks it, that one sentence largely shoots the rest in the foot. It is also interesting she talks of attracting customers from other brands, but says nothing about working to retain the brand loyalty of existing customers. Maybe she thinks that is a lost cause.

[BluChris]

If you look at further coverage today plus other threads (especially Octavia) you'll see they are introducing capped price servicing for VW and dropping the price of the entry level Golf VII. No-one knows yet if anything will flow on to Skoda.

As a now ex-Skoda owner burnt by the servicing experience I was less than happy with that sentence. I'd love to tell her in person just how blindingly expensive servicing can be when out of warranty and even minor issues crop up at damn near $200 per hour from the Skoda dealer I used. That plus failure to fix issues and general unhelpfulness got me out of the brand and VAG, maybe forever.

I know that VAG does know there are many unhappy owners through their customer surveying (was confidentially given some feedback), and have been forced to act. If not, their repeat business and therefore longer term first time buyer levels would suffer badly.

I'm really pleased they are addressing the problem but peeved to all getout that so many owners were burnt before they reluctantly conceded there could be a 'perceived' issue.

[Transporter]

Complaints by VW branded vehicles in particular, about reliability & ownership costs must be starting to hurt the VW stable.
From what I can see, these DSG issues seem to plague VWs, but not Skoda to anywhere near the same extent. Most of these problems seem to me to be in smaller cars & particularly those with a torquey turbocharged motor in front of a 7 speed DSG. As far as my 3.6V6 Supurb goes, I've wonder if this has to do with the differnet engine mapping used by Skoda for the R36 engine; 191kW with a wider torque band, rather than the 225kW peakier toque curve of the Passat. The Supurb is also stretched which makes me wonder if the longer wheel base might also contribute with the longer drive train not being close to a harmonic length. Pure speculation on my part.
Seperately, I see VW is giving customers in China a TEN year guarantee on thier DSGs. Looking about on Briskoda, it is clear VW discriminates on price, specs, warranty period, parts & service costs in its different markets. That suggests they who scream loudest get a better deal. Particularly if you are a market the size of China.


That HQ at Chullora houses offices, bulk store & a call centre, so I'm not quite sure how that will help improve reliability.

I note she went one to address the issue of parts & servicing ripoffs through the dealer network, undoubtedly working against a RRP 'agreement' with VAG.


I have my doubts about this being anything more than empty words though. Note the final sentence of her statement. I read it as her saying she doesn't think the problem is anything more than a beatup to be addressed through PR. Why she had to add that final sentence suggests t me she isn't too sharp. Even if she thinks it, that one sentence largely shoots the rest in the foot. It is also interesting she talks of attracting customers from other brands, but says nothing about working to retain the brand loyalty of existing customers. Maybe she thinks that is a lost cause.

From my own experience; 6 out of 6 VAG cars in our family are very reliable and except my van they're less than 5 years old.

How many problems did you have with your car?

[phaeton]

As most users here are fairly new to the VW brand myself partially included, I must say I find that VGA are actually improving things even if they're very slow.

Pre 2000
-VW had no parts centres in Australia apart from its HQ, now they have Melbourne & Sydney (I think incorporated with HQ now).
-hardly any dealer coverage (SA had 1 dealer for a long long time, now we have 3 metro plus 4 country.
-VW range comprised of Polo/Golf/Vento/Cabrio/Passat/Transporter - now its all segments nearly.

So I actually think VW are doing better each year, they've stated that they want to improve service/aftermarket presence before next growth spurt of dealerships.

Anke Koeckler is right about the whole perception thing - for instance VW servicing is expensive, have a look at what Holden and Mazda charge for their diesel products and you'd be presently surprised how close to VW some of their products are in service pricing - especially Mazda/Honda where you have to service every 6 months.

I read a book by ex GM guru Bob Lutz who said when he worked for GM they got surveys back on a model that was co-built with Toyota in the exact same plant and same drivetrain. Guess which badge had more issues reported back in surveys and which one didn't?

Perception is everything, you would not be driving a VW if you thought it was crap.
Yes our vehicles can be annoying in that a part may failure but just remember how many components go into a vehicle these days - its alot more complicated than yesteryears vehicles.

[ziggyboy]

I doubt anything will really happen. Good PR stunt Anke! I bet half the people with problems who read that are all warm and fuzzy now. Good timing to hit targets for the 2012 plated runout sale and before the end of financial year.

Meanwhile, 2 years til I get rid of my Jetta! Clock is ticking for me.

[2009fsi]

Interesting Pheaton.
When I started this thread, it was in the Skoda Superb forum, with my comments made from my experience as Skoda owner. That's different to main stream VW products, which have been out here for all my 60 years at least. It's been moved by the powers that be & I can understand their reasoning.
My perception is not based on the number of dealers, but costs incurred by this owner.
I am told by dealers that Skoda has a much longer list of essential checks for a Superb at service, than a VW & that's why it costs 40% more to service a Skoda Superb than the mechanically near identical Passat. I've also heard the comment by VW dealers & mechanics that Skodas are a cheap man's VW. But not to service, it seems.
This suggests there is some confusion within VWAG about how different parts of VWAG see the market position of their own products.
One can't help getting a feeling VWAG out here did set out to save on spec & maximise ongoing costs when they brought Skoda into the Australian market.
Despite all the writeups saying & all of the dealer specs still on Carsales saying the Superb has a full size alloy spare, the car came with a an el cheapo space waster. Of all the markets in the world, surely Australian roads & drivers warranted decent spare, especially when the wheel well is there to take it. I can tell you it was no perception when I paid double for one Thermisto wheel from a dealer here in Sydney than I would in any other Skoda market; A$519 the cheapest quote out here, versus 165Euro=A$245 advertised online by Skoda dealers in Europe at the time. But they would sell to me in Australia. There are many examples of the difference in price here & price there that Skoda owners can testify to, since many discovered Superskoda.com. Skoda owners are also aware of mechanical parts which are identical for VW & Skoda, but have different prices when bought for a Skoda rather than a VW.
My perception remains that VWAG do have a discrimitory pricing structure in Australia for top of the range Skoda branded cars. From what I can deduce from available information, Australia is the only Skoda market in the world where the Skoda arm doesn't run their own operation under general oversight of the greater VW group. I think that is bad news for Skoda owners out here, as it would be highly likely there is a conflict of brand & priority for executives within the group. It would be interesting to know how their salary bonuses criteria & how they are evaluated. I can't see there being too many bonus points for being responsible for stearing VW sales to Skoda, if it really is considered a cheap mans VW, within the group.
Of course it is open to argument whether Koeckler's remarks pertained to the VWAG range as a whole, or applied to VW badged vehicles only. Given there is a difference inthe treatment of service & spares cost for the different brands within the VWAG, we are probably discussing at crossed purposes, now this discussion is in broader general section of VW forums.

[ziggyboy]

http://www.warrantydirect.co.uk/press/150.doc

Nuff said

[Umai Naa!!]

Interesting Pheaton.
When I started this thread, it was in the Skoda Superb forum, with my comments made from my experience as Skoda owner. That's different to main stream VW products, which have been out here for all my 60 years at least. It's been moved by the powers that be & I can understand their reasoning.
My perception is not based on the number of dealers, but costs incurred by this owner.
I am told by dealers that Skoda has a much longer list of essential checks for a Superb at service, than a VW & that's why it costs 40% more to service a Skoda Superb than the mechanically near identical Passat. I've also heard the comment by VW dealers & mechanics that Skodas are a cheap man's VW. But not to service, it seems.
This suggests there is some confusion within VWAG about how different parts of VWAG see the market position of their own products.
One can't help getting a feeling VWAG out here did set out to save on spec & maximise ongoing costs when they brought Skoda into the Australian market.
Despite all the writeups saying & all of the dealer specs still on Carsales saying the Superb has a full size alloy spare, the car came with a an el cheapo space waster. Of all the markets in the world, surely Australian roads & drivers warranted decent spare, especially when the wheel well is there to take it. I can tell you it was no perception when I paid double for one Thermisto wheel from a dealer here in Sydney than I would in any other Skoda market; A$519 the cheapest quote out here, versus 165Euro=A$245 advertised online by Skoda dealers in Europe at the time. But they would sell to me in Australia. There are many examples of the difference in price here & price there that Skoda owners can testify to, since many discovered Superskoda.com. Skoda owners are also aware of mechanical parts which are identical for VW & Skoda, but have different prices when bought for a Skoda rather than a VW.
My perception remains that VWAG do have a discrimitory pricing structure in Australia for top of the range Skoda branded cars. From what I can deduce from available information, Australia is the only Skoda market in the world where the Skoda arm doesn't run their own operation under general oversight of the greater VW group. I think that is bad news for Skoda owners out here, as it would be highly likely there is a conflict of brand & priority for executives within the group. It would be interesting to know how their salary bonuses criteria & how they are evaluated. I can't see there being too many bonus points for being responsible for stearing VW sales to Skoda, if it really is considered a cheap mans VW, within the group.
Of course it is open to argument whether Koeckler's remarks pertained to the VWAG range as a whole, or applied to VW badged vehicles only. Given there is a difference inthe treatment of service & spares cost for the different brands within the VWAG, we are probably discussing at crossed purposes, now this discussion is in broader general section of VW forums.

I have actually noticed a bit of a price difference between getting an identical part from a VW dealer, compared to a Skoda dealer. I was seeing something like a 10-20% price increase from a Skoda dealer. Whether it was this particular dealership, or across the board, I'm not sure.

Overall, it shouldn't affect the price of a service too much (at the dealership, that is), maybe $20-$30 on average. Unless they're cranking the labour rate up, which is common for multi-franchise dealerships to do. One place I worked at, VW was easily $20 more an hour, compared to the other franchises that dealership had under it's umbrella.

Audi dealers would be no different, but I can easily see why VAG dealerships do charge more in labour than others. You've only got to look at the mandatory equipment they've got to purchase/lease, just to satisfy head office at audit time (annually). Some of the bigger dealerships would have at least half a million dollars just in VAG tooling and diagnostic equipment alone, let alone the typical workshop equipment like hoists, etc.

[REGS12]

I am a proud and satisfied Golf owner, that is until the time comes for a scheduled service.
If VW were to include a far more affordable sericing program for the Mk 7, dealers would be smashed with orders. Expensive servicing, along with highly publicised and often unfounded unreliability issues, have been a major barrier to sales success.
This forum would provide the perfect launching place for a major push by VW enthusiasts to ask for change, so come on, let's tell them how we feel.

[Transporter]

Most of the new cars are expensive to service, some brands even need service every 6 months which could cost more than VW, which needs service only every 12 months if driven under the normal conditions.