New Car Shopping

[The_Hawk]

Today has been an interesting day. We have been considering replacing the Multivan for years but it just keeps going. Maintenance is starting to get up and it's starting to show its age around the edges. On one hand we could keep it and just keep driving it since we own it... but that comes with an increased maintenance bill.

A new car would be very nice. Warranty, new toys/features... new car smell

Even though there are only five of us we would like to keep seven seats, even if the last two aren't full size, so we can cart around extra friends or family that might be visiting. We will have a second car so could have a five seater and take two cars *if* we ever need the extra space. But still, seven seats is where we start.
A tow bar with a square mount is preferred.
Everything else is largely up for grabs and would be a step up in technology from a 2010 T5GP Multivan.

Our first stop today was LDV to look at the LDV D90 Diesel. It is very well equipped, drives very nicely and seems to tick all the boxes. It has a bit of turbo lag off the line, but once moving it goes pretty hard. Coming out of a DSG equipped Multivan we are somewhat used to that behaviour. It appears to have all the technology, although I have to do some more reading as it might be missing one or two fancy options (like wireless CarPlay and charging) but comes with pretty much everything else out of the box including leather seats (and heated steering wheel, but no heated seats). You can see the Chinese underpinnings in places (like there is a built in manual in the main screen where the English isn't perfect and some of the screen shots of things (like the iPhone setup) have Chinese characters, but ignoring that a nice place to sit. My short read through review seems to be mostly positive but again, more reading required on that side. For $48.5k drive away (with towbar and before haggling) it's a very very nice looking option.

Second stop was Skoda to check out the Kodiaq. It's a nice car, feels a little better built than the LDV, goes a little harder off the line than the diesel LDV even though it has less power and torque overall. It does have some nice touches like the umbrella in the door, but it felt more cramped inside the cabin, it rode a little rougher and the second row (and especially the third row) felt cramped compared to that LDV. Honestly, I was expecting to be wowed at how much better the Skoda was compared to the 'cheap' LDV, but we were both left feeling pretty underwhelmed.

Pricing on the Kodiaq is $52k for the Style in Blue or $57k for the Sportline in Red. The option pack significantly add to that ($63k for the Sportline with both packs) and I haven't got a price on the towbar. I'd have to sit down and see which option packs would be needed to level the field for what you get in the LDV, but it's $5 - 15k more for a car that doesn't feel as good just didn't stack up.

The last stop was Volkswagen, which wasn't a great experience for a range of reasons. The dealership didn't have any to look at, but we were told it's the same as the Kodiaq in interior size etc. Pricing is similar (according to the online calculator) with $53K for the base FWD model with a couple of options to bring it up to the others or the real comparison the AWD diesel with sunroof is $64k (again would have to check the options for these builds). In short though, similar costs to the Kodiaq.

Both the Skoda and the VW look awfully familiar (coming from a Golf and Multivan). It sort of feels like more of the same... which does bring some comfort that it will just work, but also raises the question of why I'm spending a fortune for on a new car?? Then the pricing on the LDV makes it a pretty compelling option, it didn't feel like it was missing anything glaring or that you were getting 'the cheap' alternative. Resale values on 2017 models of the LDV don't look terrible either (that the oldest ones in country). I hate to say it, but could be the first non VAG car we have bought in 20 years (I'll still have my Golf though ).

There is still lots more reading and more looking about to be done as well as crunching the total cost of the vehicle... But not what I was expecting from today.

[whitevx]

It all comes down to what suits your purse and the all mighty $$. I know personally I wouldn't touch an LDV even if you paid me. I never had a VAG product prior to my Skoda, could I be seen as being biased ? Yes. I prefer to have a known product, a product that's proven to be safe and also more comfortable. Give me a VAG product anyway thank you.

[The_Hawk]

I posted someone on a Facebook Skoda group asking about the Kodiaq and was met with a range of responses (as expected) from total Fanboi to reasonable feedback and alternatives. What I was really looking for was for someone to point out the positives, the reasons why the Skoda was better/worth it based on real experiences. I share all the concerns over a Chinese brand, a new entrant to our market, and marketed at a bargain price and that's before you consider any tensions between countries and future relationships. It's mostly fear and uncertainty of what could go wrong, maybe it's warranted, maybe not. But lets face it, the price difference is huge when compared to the smaller VAG offerings.

Don't get me wrong, I really *want* to stay in the VAG family, but the Tiguan Allspace and the Kodiaq just aren't in the same size class as I think we are looking for and that's what really surprised me. I just expected the Tiguan Allspace and Kodiaq to be bigger than they are. With the number of different model across the range, they are the biggest (excluding the Toureg which is daaaaamn expensive) and really aren't all that big. Totally my fault I just had it my head they were bigger and didn't appreciate they weren't large SUV's.

That leaves a new Multivan... which really is more of the same as we have now, with not a lot of change in the last 10 years on that front and I just don't know that I could justify the cost of replacing something that is closer to like for like than I would... well, like If that was the only option I would just spend a fraction of that cost to fix up the ratty edges on the current one and just accept that I will have to fix a few things along the way if/when they start to fail. Otherwise, it feels and performs much the same on the road.



So today I went and looked at a few more cars, some on the suggestion of that Skoda group. The Mitsubishi Outlander and Pajero Sports are priced pretty well and have most or all of the toys, but are still a little on the small side inside. The Mazda CX-8 and CX-9 seem larger inside than the others for a little more money and have some very nice toys (HUD is standard across the range for example). Pricing in the mid-tier is OK although some of the high-end models get up further than I want to be (or can really see value in) but are very nice too.

There are still a few more options to consider, but it's been an interesting experience. Even the attitude of different sales people (and for some I've been to multiple different dealerships so it's not even brand X are bastards and brand Y are nice), some are pretty pragmatic, have worked for other brands and will reflect positives of other brands/models where others are just arrogant and rubbish everything else.

There is absolutely a professional manner to point out the positives of your offering over another while also conceding where you can't compete, some are very good at this, others not so much. I'm capable of discarding the personal BS and looking at the cars on their relative merits, but I can absolutely see why some people would just walk out of a dealership and never look back when shopping across brands.

[jets]

It all comes down to what suits your purse and the all mighty $$. I know personally I wouldn't touch an LDV even if you paid me. I never had a VAG product prior to my Skoda, could I be seen as being biased ? Yes. I prefer to have a known product, a product that's proven to be safe and also more comfortable. Give me a VAG product anyway thank you.

I have a very similar response. Politically, I wouldn't consider any Chinese product. I am trying to avoid anything made in PRC but I have read that almost 20% of of their products aren't made by any other country. The no. of dealerships in Aust. providing spare parts, service & technical knowledge would be many times greater for the VW product. My experience with VW is the spare parts support is one of the best & I haven't had any NLA responses for my T4 that is now 20 years old. Looking further into the future, VW have a supply warehouse that is called Classic Parts that supplies parts for very old VWs. One thing that will kill resale of any new vehicle is if parts are NLA.

[Guest001]

I see your point about sizes as I thought the Tiguan LOOKED bigger than Tucson etc BUT is actually a little shorter. We find it large enough inside coming from a Passat and as is the 162 has more poke. We dont need 7 seats so didnt consider an Allspace

With its adjustable rear seat it does give more legroom in the rear but has a smaller boot than the Passat wagon..
Am happier with the higher seating position. I drove a Tucson a few years ago and didnt like it as it torque steered quite a bit, was probably a base model as was a rental. Friend has a a CX5 and i prefer the Tig.
Also the Kodiaq doesnt come with the big motor and I thought it felt smaller inside.
Have been in an ASX, no thanks

[Sharkie]

Aaron, look at this : 2022 Hyundai Staria revealed, Australian launch timing confirmed

This will be better built and far more reliable than anything from either VAG or LDV ....

I've been told that we will need another van in about 2 years time .... and this 1 top of my list.

The KIA would be my 2nd choice New Kia Carnival 2021 confirmed: All-new people-mover due next year - Car News | CarsGuide

Both have more than 5 years warranty too and based on experience, nothing is likely to go wrong during that time. Can't say the same for VAG.

[The_Hawk]

It looks like the 5+2 configuration of most medium SUV's are designed more for occasional use or for small children. Lots of these I wouldn't consider comfortable for even five people for any sort of longer trip (if only using the second row) which means you have to use the back toy seats. More suited to a family of 4 who regularly takes a couple of extras to football practice than a full time 5/6/7 seater. (That said I know I'm spoilt for space in the Multivan).

The Tiguan Allspace did feel I little bigger on the inside than the Kodiaq, but it was a second day and it could be in my head... but still not big enough for what I'm looking for.

I'm less inclined to get another Van if I could avoid it which somewhat rules out the Carnival (I'm also not generally a fan of the Carnival). I'd like something with AWD/4WD (because I've not had one and because I have occasionally taken the van to places you probably shouldn't ).

I did see the Staria a while back and it looks very interesting, but my Wife didn't like the look. We are in no rush so maybe it will be on the ground to look at in person before we make a decision.

There are a couple of maintenance items on the Multi that I keep looking at (like wear on the drivers seat) but have been holding back on spending any more money than I have to if I'm just going to trade/sell it very soon anyway. Every time I spend money on fixing something I feel like I need to keep it a little longer to justify the outlay I just made

[PilipHannah]

Aaron, look at this : 2022 Hyundai Staria revealed, Australian launch timing confirmed employee monitoring

This will be better built and far more reliable than anything from either VAG or LDV ....

I've been told that we will need another van in about 2 years time .... and this 1 top of my list.

The KIA would be my 2nd choice New Kia Carnival 2021 confirmed: All-new people-mover due next year - Car News | CarsGuide

Both have more than 5 years warranty too and based on experience, nothing is likely to go wrong during that time. Can't say the same for VAG.

Hyundai Staria has so futuristic design....