Fog lights - rule change in Queensland...

[maca]

Now....... To find some LEDs that will fit the R36

Kris, these might look good on your car .

Those LEDs look gross but each their own. Hopefully they might go out of fashion before too many cars get them.
Do you have a pair of these? they will stop people crashing into you on the beach

Haha thanks!! I'm glad someone finally added a humour element to this stale discussion..

[Rocket36]

Hmmm... I reckon they're tacky looking. Hard to tell. Thanks for the suggestion though

[Rocket36]

I'll just get one of these! lol
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/18-Le...Q5fAccessories

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_CodYN3ODs

(I am joking btw)

[Mk3 AAA]

^^ I don't see why we shouldn't get stirred up when bollocks (IMO) legislation comes in.

Sure foglights look 'cool' but they also help visability for both driver and other road users and I reckon they assist in perspective on really dark roads i.e how far a car is away and what speed it's approaching, and how large it is (how much room it might require on a tight road), is there any other government in the world that has banned them??

There's always presure for governments to be seen to be doing something, all I want to know is if this is a real issue, or are we getting wool pulled over our eyes to hide a more serious issue that isn't so easy to deal with.

I don't even have foglights, but it just annoys me to see things be banned without good reasoning...its always tax and ban tax and ban very rarely is it actual productive (e.g. wanting more people to use public transport so they increase taxes involved with cars, recently rego and fuel....not...say, um, oh hell i don't know....improve public transport so it's actually a viable option for more people), misallignment is no excuse either, why couldn't it just be a roadworthy requirement for them to be adjusted properly and to a certain brightness or wattage.


Stale arguement or not, it's a metaphor for what bothers me about the governments approach to these sorts of issues.

[blutopless2]

got pulled over about a month or so ago by a booze bus.
It was around midnight, and i had been driving along some "country" type roads with no other cars using them. had my high beams on and my fogs (as i find with high beams the fog lights fill in the gap at the front of the car on the road that the high beams pass over). came into suburbia, forgot about fog lights.
pulled up at the booze bus... guy asks me to turn off my fog lights. states that in vic its a $150 fine or thereabouts and didn't mention points.
dont think they actively target people with them on, but if they have you pulled over for something else you will probably get the fine.
Personally i have no problems with people using them. they dont annoy me at all when driving. but since they are illegal people need to cop it on the chin if/when they get pulled over and fined.

[Maverick]

got pulled over about a month or so ago by a booze bus.
It was around midnight, and i had been driving along some "country" type roads with no other cars using them. had my high beams on and my fogs (as i find with high beams the fog lights fill in the gap at the front of the car on the road that the high beams pass over).

I find it quite amazing that so many people who are otherwise intelligent would choose to reduce their distance vision by turning on fog lights. The reason why your head lights do not light up the area immediately in front of your car is because this causes your pupils to contract.

People who justify their illegal xenon conversions use the same argument because they suffer from the illusion that the lights are working well even though their distance vision has suffered substantially.

And I'll back my claims up with what Daniel Stern has to say on the subject (no doubt the fog light lovers will continue to live in denial because they "look cool")

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...fog_lamps.html

"In clear conditions, more foreground light is not a good thing, it's a bad thing. Some foreground light is necessary so you can use your peripheral vision to see where you are relative to the road edges, the lane markings and that pothole 10 feet in front of your left wheels. But foreground light is far less safety-critical than light cast well down the road into the distance, because at any significant speed (much above 30 mph), what's in the foreground is too close for you to do much about. If you increase the foreground light, your pupils react to the bright, wide pool of light by constricting, which in turn substantially reduces your distance vision—especially since there's no increase in down-the-road distance light to go along with the increased foreground light. It's insidious, because high levels of foreground light give the illusion, the subjective impression, of comfort and security and "good lighting"."

"Nobody thinks your car is cool because it has fog lamps, and glare is dangerous, so do yourself and everyone a favor: choose them carefully, aim them properly, use them thoughtfully, and leave them off except when they're genuinely necessary."

[Maverick]

^^ I don't see why we shouldn't get stirred up when bollocks (IMO) legislation comes in.

Sure foglights look 'cool' but they also help visability for both driver and other road users and I reckon they assist in perspective on really dark roads i.e how far a car is away and what speed it's approaching, and how large it is (how much room it might require on a tight road), is there any other government in the world that has banned them??

Seeing as you made this wild claim I assume you have something to back it up?

Foglights at too low to the ground to assist with seeing how far away a car is or it's speed. Headlights will make a car seem closer then it is which is why countries with DRL's see a reduction in crashes as people however foglights can have the opposite effect and seem further away.

Headlights are on the car for a purpose.

There's always presure for governments to be seen to be doing something, all I want to know is if this is a real issue, or are we getting wool pulled over our eyes to hide a more serious issue that isn't so easy to deal with.

It's simple.

Headlights are used when driving.
Indicators are used for indicating.
Brakelights are used when applying the brakes.
Foglights are used during fog (and some other specific conditions)

I don't even have foglights, but it just annoys me to see things be banned without good reasoning...its always tax and ban tax and ban very rarely is it actual productive (e.g. wanting more people to use public transport so they increase taxes involved with cars, recently rego and fuel....not...say, um, oh hell i don't know....improve public transport so it's actually a viable option for more people), misallignment is no excuse either, why couldn't it just be a roadworthy requirement for them to be adjusted properly and to a certain brightness or wattage.

Stale arguement or not, it's a metaphor for what bothers me about the governments approach to these sorts of issues.

Foglights are illegal to use except under specific conditions if every country in the world.

Foglights decrease safety (see my post above).

Foglights serve no purpose under the conditions they are mostly used and people only use them because they're either trying to look cool or they're clueless (or both).

Foglights are there for a specific application just like the rear fog light, high beam, indicators and so on.

I'd like to see it a 3 point offence and $400+ for using foglights, there is no excuse for operating them under clear conditions.

[Maverick]

The argument that ALL fog/driving lights should be illegal because some of them are mis-aligned or too bright is so flawed. They're just lights! Studies have proven that driving all the time with lights on reduces your chances of being involved in a crash as it adds visibility.

Good misquoting there Rocket.

Studies have shown that in nordic countries where the ambient light level is low all year round that DRL's make a difference, the difference in a country like Australia is minimal. And the studies all use either dedicated DRL's or the headlights. Foglights are not used as they are too low to the ground to be effective.

Almost ALL fog/driving lights these days are LOWER in power tha the main headlights. As someone has said, let's ban headlights as well then.

You're intelligent so why would you use such an argument? Wattage has nothing to do with light output, what has to do is the design of the reflector or projector used along with the type of bulb.

FYI the stock foglights are 51watts and stock halogens are 55watt, the bi-xenons are 35watt.

Take a look at the size of the reflector for the halogen housing and look at the size of the fog light reflector. There is a hell of a lot more light in that tiny space.

To all the whingers, get over it. I have NEVER been "blinded" while driving because of lights - even from some knob who doesn't dip his high beam. If you're getting blinded by light, seek medical attention and hand in your licence. ANYTHING that makes vehicles more visible is a good thing!

Anything? So I'll fit 10,000 watts of lights to the front of my car and in your opinion that's a good thing?

It's why all motorbikes MUST have the headlight on with the ignition. It's an ADR. And guess what? The headlight (not high beam either) on my B-King is a higher intensity than almost ALL new car fog/driving lights.

Foglights are illegal to use except under specific conditions so why justify their usage?

BTW motorbikes no longer have to have their headlight on with their ignition, this requirement was dropped years ago. 1992 they were introduced in ADR 19/01 and they were removed in 1996 in ADR 19/02.

Fine the ones that are too bright or dazzling because they're not aligned.

Why? Foglights serve no purpose for general use.

Or fine the knobs who put HIDs into reflector headlights instead of projector ones.

This is already an offence.

There is FAR more worse things out there than people who want to be safer by being more visible. And by visible MAVERICK, people are talking about more VISIBLE to ONCOMING TRAFFIC. Correctly aligned low mounted fog/driving lights make the oncoming vehicle more visible without the eye level impact of headlights or high beams. Correctly aligned fog/driving lights do NOT reflect of the road.

Fog light do reflect off the road, they're low to the ground. Don't kid yourself and think that foglights are used for anything more than the "look at me" crew who want to look cool. If you want to be seen you use your headlights, these are proven to work unlike foglights who are only designed to be used under certain conditions.

Read up on some of the data organisations like NRMA have on visibility of oncoming vehicles and the DIRECT relation to driving with lights on or off.

The NRMA are idiots, they have made claims that by using DRL's in this country deaths of both occupants of cars and pedestrians will drop by 25% overnight which is absolute rubbish when you look at the data from Nordic countries with their lower ambient light having much much smaller drops.

Why do you think Telstra dropped it's DRL programme that ran for many years? Because it made no difference to the accident rate.

Why do you think it's no longer mandatory for motorbikes to have their headlights on? Because it made no difference to the accident rate.

This is Australia, we have high ambient lighting and DRL's will make very little if any difference to our road toll.

[gldgti]

Seems that this topic get the "users" defensive and indignant, and that clearly the "victims" are the ones with the problems.

Nonetheless, the physics of lenses and optics is clearly too much for most of the "users" here to grasp, because no-one here has given any scientific or engineering reason why their lights might not dazzle oncoming drivers (or divers infront, via their mirrors) - only a pathetic testimony that the rest of us should believe.

By, the way, I got my eyes tested 3 weeks ago, and got new glasses. No light sensitivity problems with me to report. Although, I never suspected I would, having no problems in a workshop full of high intensity weld flash all day long.

Anyway, the way I see it is that if you have an attitude allows you to knowingly conduct your driving in a way that could cause other drivers undue discomfort and risk, then you should really not be there - or atleast try and see it from someone elses point of view.

I do a lot of driving in day and night, and I always drive with my lowbeams on - since I have a black car. The number of vehicles that dazzle me through my mirrors at night is amazing - even through the tinted rear window. Maybe 1 or two very large, usually old 4wd's cause unnecessary glare with their low beams, but I find that most of the unneccesary glare comes from 2 sources - aftermarket HID's, and foglights.. including VAG cars.

Basically, have a care. We're not all out there to annoy eachother - at least, we oughtn't be. If it really gives you thrills to use your foglights, move to the UK, or just relish those few spring and autumn mornings. Otherwise, go get some DRL's with diffusing lenses.

typical lights

[Spyda]

This law has been around since the end of last year and i only know 2 people who have been booked. In vic its $157 or something. Im my area all the younger drivers drive with fogs and parkers on so we can recognise eachother.

Some foglights are annoying but i guess that because i have a lowered car. The idiots who put extra large watt bulbs and shoot them forward like head lights are gay. It looks stupid and is annoying and it doesnt work.

The fog lights are suposta shoot down and out to the sides 1) because that looks alot better than shooting forward like headlights 2) because thats how they are suposta work. Alot of foglights these day that are factory dont even do what they are intended for.

Driving lights are great and make a person car stand out alot more without burning the back of your scull.

It not nearly as annoying as HID's and im not talking about aftermarket HID's but the standard ones, espcialy on 300c and new Honda's. People driving with rear foglights suck too, you can hardly see their brake lights.