DSG woes in The Age

[wai]

With a manual, or in manual mode and engage first gear?

on D or manual mode, the clutch take up is exactly the same. All that changes is whether/when it changes up into 2nd.

[wai]

I find that the "Auto Hold" function is your friend for both of these: it makes it less likely that you will creep forward in traffic because you have to put your foot on the accelerator for the car to start moving, and it makes using the handbrake when stopped unnecessary -- you can take your foot off the brake pedal and the breaks will remain applied until you press the accelerator. I was wondering whether the DSG was the reason the Auto Hold function was introduced in the first place. Anyone got any insight into that?

Yes, Auto Hold is good, only you really need to be careful because after 3 minutes, the brake is released, and if your foot is off the brake, it will move forward

The other thing is that not all cars have it. The Caddy has Hill Hold which is similar, except the time goes down from 3 minutes to 3 seconds, and then as soon as it detects a change in accelerator position, the brake comes off instantly.

The thing is that when using the hand brake you need to be in P or N (or doing a hill start ).

[Hillbilly]

Basically, this means doing what you would in a manual. Yes, I do know someone who will hold his manual on a slope using the clutch only. Needless to say his clutches wear out relatively quickly. He actually believes he has learned a valuable skill and his attitude is "what else are clutches for"!

I learned a valuable skill when I did that 50 years ago when learning to drive.
It was to duck quickly before my father whacked me around the ear for doing it. ROFL

[Transporter]

It's more advice than "here's how you should drive it"

Having a car that automatically selects gears, and guesses what gear should be used next is great, and innovative.
Apart from the "Don't put it in N as you can overheat the gearbox" (remember this from the manual, should have added that before) - the idea of overriding the gear selection to shift down earlier or driving in S/M to select gears yourself, and avoid braking in stop-start traffic doesn't seem like advice a dealer is going to give you, or the ideal way to drive a car that's designed to be smart.

The idea of a car learning your habits also kind of negates everything else that is said.
If VW wanted you to change the gears yourself, it should be clearer in both the manual and the instructions that come from them.

Blaming consumers for "using it wrong" is a bit unfair to the drivers. Especially when the traits to driving it well seem to be not putting it in N, not taking your foot off the brake when stopped, and not using your handbrake to hold it in traffic - which are all manual traits, and not how people are taught automatics.
Do some of these models come with 3 pedals for manual drivers? Sure. Not the Polo GTI though.
Do they have traditional automatics for auto drivers? Nope.

My daughter's first car was MK5 Golf TDI with the DSG, as the young driver on her P plates she never mentioned to me that she would have any problem with driving the car, she has done 45,000km in it, been through Tasmania and many places.

From my own experience; there are many people (not just the VAG car owners) who don't use their car properly.

[Blackdakdak]

The reality is that the concept and the mechanicals of the DSG are probably fine. It seems to be the programming or controlling of it that is causing concern.

If it had an adjustable control, like you have for some suspension setups, more people might have less issues. Maybe they should have a mechatronics control knob where you can adjust to suit yourself - trade economy for better driveability (for example in the Tiguan). So you can set whether it changes up to 2nd in D mode at 3km/h for max economy or at a higher speed for better driveability in different traffic situations.

And yeah, i know this is supposedly why we have D, S and manual modes but changing between them all the time is a pain and even these 3 modes dont seem to suit a lot of us. Its like the 3 bears story - one bed too hard, one too soft, and one just right. The manual mode is probably just right but i didnt buy a dsg so i could change between 7 gears every 3 seconds.

One post i saw said

"The fact there is a thread titled "how to drive a DSG properly" means there is something seriously wrong.

I don't see any "how to drive a Ford Falcon auto properly" or "how to drive a Holden Cruze auto properly" .. Simply because they are automatic – ie "they just work" "

[ill0gitech]

From my own experience; there are many people (not just the VAG car owners) who don't use their car properly.

How do you feel they are misusing - besides the brake and neutral comments we've made so far?

Did your daughter learn on an Auto or a Manual?
The habits people pick up tend to follow them from car to car. My fiance loves to rip the handbrake out of the car - because that's how her manual needed to be treated (this bugs me a lot)

[Transporter]

How do you feel they are misusing - besides the brake and neutral comments we've made so far?

Did your daughter learn on an Auto or a Manual?
The habits people pick up tend to follow them from car to car. My fiance loves to rip the handbrake out of the car - because that's how her manual needed to be treated (this bugs me a lot)

She learned in auto, can drive both now.

[VW_Perceptions]

Which year was the last ordinary 4 speed auto in a VW, and which models?

[wai]

The problem with making the system user adjustable is that you then have the situation where an owner "adjusts" it such that it destroys itself and then claims that if the manufacturer allowed the user to adjust it, anything in the adjustment range should not destroy the gearbox.

The fact that we are discussing how to drive it demonstrates a failure with VW. I have mentioned this elsewhere where it comes down to a different philosophy when it comes to performing tasks. Normally the Germans would have everyone go through a 3 day course (assessed of course), whereas the Americans simply let you loose. This sees things designed differently. Here we have had a complex device that is sold as something it is not, with those selling it having no knowledge about how it works, or how to use it, that then fails.

The reason we do not have "how to drive a torque converter automatic properly" is because of this different philosophy. The DSG is not an American design concept because they knew it would be difficult to get buyers to adopt it without problems. By the way, this is not knocking Americans. They are perfectly capable of understanding the concept of a DSG, it is just that from a manufacturer's point of view, it would likely end in tears (for them).

The DSG is a lot more efficient that a torque converter box, and this glitch should not mean we drop it. It needs to be made as foolproof as a Torque Converter Gearbox (let's start calling them TCG ) with us mug punters the fools. We do not want it to be so complex that we need a Masters Degree in Engineering just to put the ignition key in the lock. We do not want it to be so fragile that your sneeze sees it become a bucket of metal bits. We do not want 10 computers (or more) trying to control it where one tries to do something that another overrides and leaves you stranded. This takes time and costs money, but the bean counters running the car companies want to see results (read profits) immediately.

Well, they get their way, and we see the results amply demonstrated here. A company that had earned a reputation for producing a quality product absolutely trashed because it thought it could "fool some of the customers all of the time", and the ones who coined the response "standard for that type of vehicle". Reputations take ages to build and seconds to destroy. Rebuilding reputations takes a hell of a lot longer as they have to overcome the negative feelings left after a disaster of this kind.

[Transporter]

The recalls aren't that uncomon, many manufacturers have them and basically as the price of the car remained the same for more than a decade while the prices for almost everything else at least doubled, who wouldn't be surprised that there are recalls?

Don't just take my word for it.

Taken from here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_recall

Automotive Industry

In general, the number of recalls has been increasing - with an exception during the economic crisis 2009-2010 – due to time, cost and market pressure. Per year, global automotive warranties are estimated as USD 40 billion, 3 -5 % loss in sales. Low priced production often leads to minor quality, and outsourcing leads to a shift of knowledge concerning techniques and processes. This way, technical failures are more likely to occur due to communication problems between the different parties engaged in the supply chain and missing definitions for technical interfaces. Since most of the failures are introduced within the production phase, an early failure analysis can prevent from high recall costs and image loss. Usually, it takes 12 months from failure detection to correction. An image loss is then bound to happen and will require new, costly marketing efforts to improve it.