DSG woes in The Age

[brad]

My mate with the 6R Polo that I fitted Konis to... it goes into limp mode every few months. He calls it putt,putt,putt mode. He's had it back to the dealer three times. The ecu has stored fault codes. In his words

When our Polo goes putt-putt-putt (maybe once our twice a month?) it certainly logs a fault code. VW Sutherland acknowledge an issue but are unwilling to spend any money fixing it.

WTF?

[pologti18t]

My mate with the 6R Polo that I fitted Konis to... it goes into limp mode every few months. He calls it putt,putt,putt mode. He's had it back to the dealer three times. The ecu has stored fault codes. In his words "The dealership acknowledges there is a fault but refuses to spend any money to fix the issue."
WTF?

WTF indeed. VGA would pay for any warranty repairs. Ask him what the fault codes suggest. GTi??

[brad]

WTF indeed. VGA would pay for any warranty repairs. Ask him what the fault codes suggest. GTi??

2012 77tsi dsg

[BluChris]

Completely agree current PR advice is if you stuff up, admit it straight away and say what you'll do to fix it. But I can imagine the conversation at HQ: "So what will we admit? Let's see. If you have a twincharger engine, sorry but it will probably chew oil and may well end up requiring replacement (Polo GTI), or otherwise lose compression on cylinder 3 on the way to self destruction requiring an engine replacement (Golf 118TSi). The good news is that the Golf engine might die on you but at least the Polo won't. Hmmmm, what else? OK the 7 speed DSG is a world of pain for a number of our customers and sometimes we don't know how to fix it properly or it breaks again pretty quickly. At least we know for sure the 125 TDi injectors are dodgy and can leave you stranded so we will fix those, oh yeah and coil packs on some of the other engines, and yes some customers do seem to have weird shutdown or loss of power issues and..."

If I were VW I'd find it hard to come clean too because if they cop to all this the brand damage is likely to be palpable. While there are plenty of happy owners, let's face it if you saw the stuff on these cars posted here and in the media what would you think of buying a VW? If you're not a loyalist you probably wouldn't take the risk, especially with owners complaining about lack of VW support. If VW confirmed your worst fears in the media...

None of which excuses VW if they have not made every effort possible to address failures that can create safety risks for owners.

[team_v]

Completely agree current PR advice is if you stuff up, admit it straight away and say what you'll do to fix it.

The problem is that VW don't know what the problem is for the DSG issue and the rapid deceleration.
So how can they say what they are going to do to fix it when there isn't a solution yet?

[BluChris]

The problem is that VW don't know what the problem is for the DSG issue and the rapid deceleration.
So how can they say what they are going to do to fix it when there isn't a solution yet?

Completely agree, and that only makes it worse. 'Yeah, some of our products are kinda dodgy, oh and by the way we don't have a cure.' Imagine how that would go down.

As many have said already, there appears to be a cultural issue that ramps up the discontent. Bad enough to have these issues, but when you feel you are treated badly by the dealer network and VAG it creates the angst now being expressed. Never personally had the big problems but the way dealers dealt with me over smaller ones resonates with others' views. It's what got me out of the brand, not the car itself (which I really liked).

Whether VAG can admit to these design and reliability issues or not, they sure as hell can change their attitude to customer service. That would be a massive start.

[pologti18t]

The problem is that VW don't know what the problem is for the DSG issue and the rapid deceleration.
So how can they say what they are going to do to fix it when there isn't a solution yet?

Very true on both counts.

Rapid deceleration really is power cutout. Is this a common problem in any other market?

There is also a difference to the false neutral issue in DSGs and the slow speed/clutch/jerky issue on the DSG7. Mind you, if you look up Powershift (dry clutch) problems they tend to also have the slow speed/jerky/clutch pack issues as well. I think all manufacturers will suffer this in dry clutch models unfortunately.

AS i mentioned before Mazda had issues with the first CX5 diesels - some people saw large crankcase oil dilution by diesel. People got pissed off, because even though Mazda acknowledged there was a problem they couldn't honestly give a resolution date or a reason for why it was happening. Secondly, the fix was applied hodge podge by dealers which pissed some people of more (why was yours repaired before mine etc). Then Mazda wouldn't say what the actual ecu fix was... so even though the car didn't show anymore symptoms some owners didn't "believe" Mazda had actually fixed it. Manufacturers can't win in the end.

VWA needs to get their dealers on board... every power cutout/DSG issue reported by a customer has to be treated as a top priority and all problems (and the solution!) need to be analyzed at a central location to get to the bottom of this. In some situations it may well be user error... but this needs to be fed back to dealers so they can tell customers not to "rest left foot on brake whilst driving" for instance etc. Salesmen need to be trained in explaining the differences in the operation of a DSG gearbox compared to a normal auto so the buyer's perceptions are correct. I can see complaints about CVTs rising as they make more inroads into the market!

[The_Hawk]

I think they do know what's causing the sudden shutdowns

I don't know that that is the case. I agree that a total recall would be prohibitively expensive, but if they know what the problem is and how to fix it, surely then fixing and/or replacing the small (in relative numbers) number of effected vehicles would be the better option.

Of course the concept that it could be one of several known issues each of which requires a different part could be correct, but surely there would have to be some way to test each part for the possible faults (preferably in situ). It might be time consuming, but if there is a known issue and a known fix surely there is a known diagnostics procedure.

Essentially I'm thinking they really can't pinpoint what exactly the issue is.



On a side note, I do wonder if there is a standard ODB port logging piece of hardware which could be plugged into customer cars to log parameters to hunt down the cause (assuming there is no error codes to help with that).

[wai]

Essentially I'm thinking they really can't pinpoint what exactly the issue is.

That may well be the case. If it is, they need to come clean. After all, owners have paid large sums for the product. Be up front and accept there is an issue and that they will work with owners to resolve it. In the meantime, extend the warranty. Keep the lawyers out of it. All they do is inflame the situation.

All owners want is some assurance that they will not be left out in the cold. You don't buy a VW to get a refund.