DSG woes in The Age

[alexaescht]

Not to mention starter motor life expectancy and everything else that is put under stress at ignition.

Once it's up to operating temp. I think it can start the engine almost completely without using the starter motor. It actually stops the crankshaft at a certain position so that it can then inject fuel into the combustion chamber of a certain cylinder that's in the right place and then it only needs to spin the engine a tiny amount to get it going again.

I think I read that somewhere

[nomadx38]

I have a 6 speed DSG with a juddering/shuddering issue.

The ACCC Recall app is saying the 6 speed has been recalled. The link points to this page:
Volkswagen—Volkswagen Golf, Jetta, EOS, Passat & Caddy Vehicles

Volkswagen—Volkswagen Golf, Jetta, EOS, Passat & Caddy Vehicles
PRA number: 2013/13625
Date published: 3rd November 2009
Product information
Product description
6 speed DSG DQ250 control unit for the direct shift gear box
Identifying features
Campaign number: 37E8
Target: 4591
What are the defects?
The direct shift gearbox (DSG) may read the clutch temperature incorrectly and activate the clutch protection function. This will illuminate a flashing gear warning light and cause juddering of the vehicle, a reduction in engine torque, and opening of the clutch, reduction of engine torque an opening of clutch (no drive).
What are the hazards?
Loss of power to the wheels may in certain circumstances pose a hazard to the vehicle occupants and other road users.
Where the product was sold

Nationally

Traders who sold this product
Volkswagen authorised dealers
Supplier
Volkswagen Group Australia
What should consumers do?
A letter has been sent to affected owners. Customers can contact their local dealer to arrange for a vehicle check-up, and if necessary, repair of the fault.

It is strange that it has a 2013 reference number: "PRA number: 2013/13625" but also says "3rd November 2009".

Can someone explain this? The media seems to be concentrating on the 7 speed DSG. I see plenty of other 6 speed DSG owners complaining of issues. I am in an ongoing discussion with VW on my 6 speed issue. I have not had any response to my emails since this blew up in the media, 2 weeks ago.

Any assistance is appreciated.

Yeah the 6 speed DSG was recalled ages ago to address a faulty temperature sensor that would make it go into limp home mode. Since then it has been fixed but I thought I heard there was also a silent service campaign that saw those parts get replaced outside of the dates that they recalled within.

Could it be possible that you slipped through the cracks?

Also how many KM have you done? It is normal for the clutches to shudder if they are out of clutch material BUT because you have the 6 speed multi plate wet clutch you should get AT LEAST 100,000km out of your clutches and that's with extreme slipping in bumper to bumper conditions. With a normal driving run 150,000-200,000 should be easily achievable - again depending on driving style.

[nomadx38]

And yes for diesels you can do that and I'm pretty sure that's how the blue motion system works for diesels BUT what about the blue motion systems for petrol motors.

You can't really have the same system. yes it could stop the engine, check to see which cylinder is just past TDC and inject fuel into it and let it sit there until it requires to go and then add the spark but without any mass on the flywheel I wonder if it could backfire or miss the next ignition and not start at all...

[VWDSGissue]

Yeah the 6 speed DSG was recalled ages ago to address a faulty temperature sensor that would make it go into limp home mode. Since then it has been fixed but I thought I heard there was also a silent service campaign that saw those parts get replaced outside of the dates that they recalled within.

Could it be possible that you slipped through the cracks?

Also how many KM have you done? It is normal for the clutches to shudder if they are out of clutch material BUT because you have the 6 speed multi plate wet clutch you should get AT LEAST 100,000km out of your clutches and that's with extreme slipping in bumper to bumper conditions. With a normal driving run 150,000-200,000 should be easily achievable - again depending on driving style.

Hi,

Thanks for your message.

I have brought the car to the local VW dealer in April. They fixed the injectors issue but did not mention this issue. I bought the car second hand, so it may have been fixed before I owned it.

I had done about 75,000Km when the shudder became very obvious. The car does some commuting into Melbourne, so there is some bumper to bumper traffic but not more than 15 minutes a day, about 2 days a week. My other non-VW cars handle this, with no transmission issues.

VW have said the Mechatronics unit needs to be replaced, have quoted about $3,500 to fix it. I had started my own 'campaign' to get them to fix it for free, when the media took interest in the VW issues. If the recall doesn't include my DSG, I will have to keep going (the usual legal options, VCAT, join a class action, Youtube, media, a new Downfall video, etc.).

I hope VW don't just do enough to get themselves out of the spotlight. They need to fix all of the faulty DSGs, not just some of them.

Any further help would be appreciated.

[gavs]

Yeah the 6 speed DSG was recalled ages ago to address a faulty temperature sensor that would make it go into limp home mode. Since then it has been fixed but I thought I heard there was also a silent service campaign that saw those parts get replaced outside of the dates that they recalled within.

Could it be possible that you slipped through the cracks?

Also how many KM have you done? It is normal for the clutches to shudder if they are out of clutch material BUT because you have the 6 speed multi plate wet clutch you should get AT LEAST 100,000km out of your clutches and that's with extreme slipping in bumper to bumper conditions. With a normal driving run 150,000-200,000 should be easily achievable - again depending on driving style.

Mechatronics units were also replaced. I know of a specific r32 that got his mechatronics unit replaced as part of a service campaign, 2009 sounds about right though.

[wai]

That is incorrect the 6 speed has not been recalled

This was from the ACCC's Recalls App.

[wai]

Once it's up to operating temp. I think it can start the engine almost completely without using the starter motor. It actually stops the crankshaft at a certain position so that it can then inject fuel into the combustion chamber of a certain cylinder that's in the right place and then it only needs to spin the engine a tiny amount to get it going again.

I think I read that somewhere

I seriously doubt that you can stop the crankshaft in a specific position. The normal idle speed is around 900 rpm. It would be close to impossible to stop the engine so that a particular piston was at a particular point in the stroke. On top of that, with a traffic light sequence about 3 minutes, the combustion chamber would have difficulty maintaining the compression temperature for that length of time. Even with the glow plugs fired up I doubt that you could inject fuel into one cylinder and expect the engine to turn over.

Do you have a link to this?

[alexaescht]

I seriously doubt that you can stop the crankshaft in a specific position. The normal idle speed is around 900 rpm. It would be close to impossible to stop the engine so that a particular piston was at a particular point in the stroke. On top of that, with a traffic light sequence about 3 minutes, the combustion chamber would have difficulty maintaining the compression temperature for that length of time. Even with the glow plugs fired up I doubt that you could inject fuel into one cylinder and expect the engine to turn over.

Do you have a link to this?

This is Mazda's i-Stop system, but if I remember correctly VW use a similar thing (although I could be wrong)

http://www.gizmag.com/mazda-i-stop-e...l-award/14896/



As you can see, it is possible to control where the crankshaft ends up when the engine is shut down.

[ill0gitech]

Wonder if I'll get my money back now too...

...it will cost an absolute fortune and be a logistical nightmare, but that's the point. 26,000 mech units at cost (dealers are apparently paying ~$4200) is still only at dealer cost $10,920,000

From today's SMH article
$170m according to their maths - which is:
"likely to include repaying customers who have already spent money on the known faults, including a problem with the diesel injectors - which some people have paid thousands of dollars for - and the DSG-related issues."

Let's hope so. And let's hope there isn't a lengthy wait on parts, since they will only be contacting people in 2+ weeks time
---
And also from the SMH today: Volskwagen - Long Road Ahead
"It's understood Volkswagen's German headquarters is working hard to diagnose the concerns, which appear to have been highlighted in Australia but must surely impact many other countries.However sources tell us there are issues trying to identify the cause of the problems, something that won't help the hundreds of Australian owners who've experienced such issues."
--
Still trying to identify the issue? Ouch.

[gavs]

From today's SMH article
$170m according to their maths - which is:
"likely to include repaying customers who have already spent money on the known faults, including a problem with the diesel injectors - which some people have paid thousands of dollars for - and the DSG-related issues."

Let's hope so. And let's hope there isn't a lengthy wait on parts, since they will only be contacting people in 2+ weeks time
---
And also from the SMH today: Volskwagen - Long Road Ahead
"It's understood Volkswagen's German headquarters is working hard to diagnose the concerns, which appear to have been highlighted in Australia but must surely impact many other countries.However sources tell us there are issues trying to identify the cause of the problems, something that won't help the hundreds of Australian owners who've experienced such issues."
--
Still trying to identify the issue? Ouch.

$170,000,000?!?! Are they serious? They obviously don't understant the economics of building something in your own factory and selling it on. General rule of thumb in that kind of business is 250%. They have just calculated of Australian Dealership costs, that's all. As I said earlier, I can buy exactly the same mechatronic unit out of Germany, off Volkswagen AG for ~$2100. Add import duty of 10% it's now $2300. That includes retail mark up.

Clutch packs are the same. $1200 in europe.

Take that figure and halve it is a good start as to an estimate of what it's potentially going to cost VGA, for the parent company however, Look at another 50% off that sum. A proverbial drop in the pond compared to an after-tax profit of 22,000,000,000 euros....

As I said, if it wasn't for brand rep and media pressure, you really think they would do anything......? They would have happily continued down the road they were on, fixing cars as they needed too without admitting or addressing the problem. As someone else has said, it's not conspiracy, it's just good business.