DSG woes in The Age

[Sharkie]

Not having waded into this debate before, I do have some comments to make:

There are fundamental issues with the DSG boxes' design .... (ask GolfLoon) .... and the way it was explained to me is thus: 1. anywhere you bath sensitive electronics (mechantronics) in hot gearbox oil, you are bound to have failures, 2. the tendancy of the DSGs to ride the clutch to gain "economy" with always being in a higher gear than what it really should be will wear out the clutch packs earlier than expected, and finally 3. VW in Europe, where these things are designed and tested, only sell about 5% of their vehicles in DSG so testing is less than what it should be and even less of that in hot weather climates. VWA can deny and run around the bush all they want, there are issues and it is wider spread than this forum can ever hope to guess. We see maybe 2% of all VW drivers in Australia here and there are literaly 1000s with issues out there.

Other than DSG, obviously some other issues exist as well, less well known but still present. Diesel injectors being just 1, FSI (and TSI and TFSI) carbon build up being another. All have it, just less well known.

That said, do these make VW any worse than others out there? By no means, other manufacturers also have their share of major and less major issues. VWA just seem to be less capable of managing the issues and seem to be reactive instead of proactive. I myself, have been fortunate in my dealings with them; others I know personally (and not on this forum) have not.

I already from personal experience know that some VWs have extremely poor resale (undeservedly so) and others have decent resale. Will this media attention change this? Possibly, but then when everybody was gushing DSG DSG DSG for future value, I already thought BS, and the reality is that a manual VW would today fetch a premium over a DSG come trade time (all other factors being identical) ....

Would this affect my future purchases of VW's? Well, yes and no ..... I will never buy another DSG (or diesel) VW ever again. Not so much because of this media spotlight (even though it does weigh on the mind); more so because I just dont like them ..... I prefer manual petrol turbo cars and if VW builds them in a form I like, I will keep on buying VW.

So for me, VW #11 is on the way already with possible #12 (if the Mk7 R comes in a manual) to follow. However, for a cheap runaround, I'd be shopping in the Japanese (as in still built in Japan) aisle ..... as it seems "Made in Germany" is less than what it used to be, today (and for a while already) in reality replaced by "Made in Japan" as a sign of quality.

[AdamD]

Ok I have a 2012 r what dsg transmission would it have

A quick summary of the DSGs, and the failures they are most likely to experience, is perhaps in order.

DQ200 7-speed "dry clutch" DSG
This gearbox has had by far the largest number of issues with owners. The most common complaint relates to clutch slip. This gearbox has been recalled in Japan, Singapore and China for clutch pack and mechatronic fixes.
Application: Lower-powered vehicles, <= 250Nm.
Cars: Polo (TSI, TDI and GTI), Golf Mk6/Mk7 (77TSI, 90TSI, 103TSI, 118TSI, 77TDI), base Passat, some Skodas and Audis, etc
Failures (and fixes):

• Clutches may "shudder" and slip - this may be exacerbated in stop-start traffic. Fix: A number of revisions of the "clutch packs" have been issued by VW; many customers have had their clutch packs replaced under warranty.
• Mechatronic-related issues, such as rough clunky gear changes, and in the worst cases, failing to engage drive which may require the vehicle be towed. Fix: In some cases a simple turn-off/wait/turn-on can reset the system. The gearbox can also be "reset" using a series of operational steps (may require the VCDS diagnostic tool), and will then "re-learn" shift patterns as you drive. Worst-case, a new mechatronic unit may be required.
• False Neutrals: This issue is not particularly common with the DQ200, but does occur occasionally. Whilst driving, the engine will free-rev and the gearbox will appear to be in neutral. Fix: Try shifting into first and back into second; pull over and stop, then restart; engine off and on. If this does not fix the problem, check the dashboard for warnings or errors - this may be a mechatronic failure.

DQ250 6-speed "wet clutch" DSG
This gearbox is VW's first DSG. Earlier revisions (< 2008 or so) seem more troublesome; later boxes seem much better overall. The clutches tend to be fine; the only weak point is the mechatronic. This gearbox was the subject of a recall in the USA some years back (~2009?) for mechatronic issues, but has not been subject to any recalls or significant fixes since (that I am aware of).
Application: mid/high-powered vehicles, <= 350Nm
Cars: Golf Mk5/Mk6/Mk7 (GTI, R, R32, 103TDI, 110TDI), Passat TDI and V6 (inc CC), Scirocco R, some Skodas and Audis, etc
Failures (and fixes):

• False Neutrals: This issue is not particularly common with most models (it's been reported many times by Golf R owners, but only a handful of times by Golf GTI owners, for instance). Often experienced in 2nd gear and under cornering/acceleration, the engine will free-rev and the gearbox will appear to be in neutral. Fix: Try shifting into first and back into second; pull over and stop, then restart; engine off and on.
• Mechatronic-related issues, such as rough clunky gear changes, and in the worst cases, failing to engage drive which may require the vehicle be towed. Fix: In some cases a simple turn-off/wait/turn-on can reset the system. The gearbox can also be "reset" using a series of operational steps (may require the VCDS diagnostic tool), and will then "re-learn" shift patterns as you drive. Worst-case, a new mechatronic unit may be required.

DQ500 7-speed "wet clutch" DSG
This is VW's latest wet-clutch DSG, designed for high-power and high-torque applications. No-one's really talking about this gearbox in this thread.
Application: high-powered vehicles
Cars: Tiguan 155TSI and TDI, some Transporters, some high-powered Audis
Failures (and fixes): None that I'm aware of with any great frequency.

[Hail22]

Looks like an official Recall will be announced next week from Wolfsburg: More than likely for DQ200 Gearboxes

Drive - Volkswagen Recall | VW Engine Problems | DSG

[sVWatt]

VAG HQ "We are aware of the situation in Australia. We will react to the complaints. It will go beyond a service action.”
Spoken like a true parent. There is light at the end of the VWA tunnel.

Looks like an official Recall will be announced next week from Wolfsburg: More than likely for DQ200 Gearboxes

Drive - Volkswagen Recall | VW Engine Problems | DSG

[wai]

Well, not holding my breath until next week. The devil will be in the detail.

[muli]

Looks like an official Recall will be announced next week from Wolfsburg: More than likely for DQ200 Gearboxes

Drive - Volkswagen Recall | VW Engine Problems | DSG

So if VAG makes a recall does it automatically include audi and skoda or that upto them?

[Transporter]

It would be silly if not. So, IMO it should.

[tigger73]

Well I don't want to point out the obvious, but before you can have a product recall then you have to have a fix for the problem part being recalled.

At this stage I have not heard that there's a permanent solution to the DQ200 DSG issues (seems to be just a constant changing of parts).

So unless VW have a new/improved part that they're going to replace the existing part with, then there's no point in having a product recall.

Personally I think VWA has to get VW to engineer a solution that is going to work in Australian conditions (hot conditions with stop/start traffic). Until that's been done there's no point in recalling 1,000's of vehicles.

My 2c

[RoknRob]

A quick summary of the DSGs, and the failures they are most likely to experience, is perhaps in order.

DQ200 7-speed "dry clutch" DSG
This gearbox has had by far the largest number of issues with owners. The most common complaint relates to clutch slip. This gearbox has been recalled in Japan, Singapore and China for clutch pack and mechatronic fixes.
Application: Lower-powered vehicles, <= 250Nm.
Cars: Polo (TSI, TDI and GTI), Golf Mk6/Mk7 (77TSI, 90TSI, 103TSI, 118TSI, 77TDI), base Passat, some Skodas and Audis, etc
Failures (and fixes):

• Clutches may "shudder" and slip - this may be exacerbated in stop-start traffic. Fix: A number of revisions of the "clutch packs" have been issued by VW; many customers have had their clutch packs replaced under warranty.
• Mechatronic-related issues, such as rough clunky gear changes, and in the worst cases, failing to engage drive which may require the vehicle be towed. Fix: In some cases a simple turn-off/wait/turn-on can reset the system. The gearbox can also be "reset" using a series of operational steps (may require the VCDS diagnostic tool), and will then "re-learn" shift patterns as you drive. Worst-case, a new mechatronic unit may be required.

DQ250 6-speed "wet clutch" DSG
This gearbox is VW's first DSG. Earlier revisions (< 2008 or so) seem more troublesome; later boxes seem much better overall. The clutches tend to be fine; the only weak point is the mechatronic. This gearbox was the subject of a recall in the USA some years back (~2009?) for mechatronic issues, but has not been subject to any recalls or significant fixes since (that I am aware of).
Application: mid/high-powered vehicles, <= 350Nm
Cars: Golf Mk6/Mk7 (GTI, R, 103TDI, 110TDI), Passat TDI and V6 (inc CC), Scirocco R, some Skodas and Audis, etc
Failures (and fixes):

• False Neutrals: This issue is not particularly common, but does occur occasionally in some models (such as Golf R but not Golf GTI). Often experienced in 2nd gear and under cornering/acceleration, the engine will free-rev and the gearbox will appear to be in neutral. Fix: Try shifting into first and back into second; pull over and stop, then restart; engine off and on.
• Mechatronic-related issues, such as rough clunky gear changes, and in the worst cases, failing to engage drive which may require the vehicle be towed. Fix: In some cases a simple turn-off/wait/turn-on can reset the system. The gearbox can also be "reset" using a series of operational steps (may require the VCDS diagnostic tool), and will then "re-learn" shift patterns as you drive. Worst-case, a new mechatronic unit may be required.

DQ500 7-speed "wet clutch" DSG
This is VW's latest wet-clutch DSG, designed for high-power and high-torque applications. No-one's really talking about this gearbox in this thread.
Application: high-powered vehicles
Cars: Tiguan 155TSI (I believe), some Transporters, some high-powered Audis
Failures (and fixes): None that I'm aware of with any great frequency.

Excellent summary. Thanks for that.
I will add that while the DQ200 may not be PRONE to false neutrals, it can happen. Happened to me in almost the exact same circumstances you described for the DQ250.

[AdamD]

I will add that while the DQ200 may not be PRONE to false neutrals, it can happen. Happened to me in almost the exact same circumstances you described for the DQ250.

That's true, a few people on VWW have experienced the false neutral problem with the DQ200, although it does appear to be fairly unusual (certainly it's less likely to be a problem than the clutch packs and mechatronic issues with the same transmission).