Dieselgate Scandal

[Amalgam]

Does anyone actually know how much the performance will be affected by the new software?
Additionally should my parents put their cars in for service, do vdub have to inform them should they decide to upg the software or can they do it surreptitiously?
Last thought, if it is done, can it be reversed to the original software?

Hi,

I just had my MY12 125TDI Passat serviced today to avoid any update.

The service rep, advised me:

1/ not to carry out the software reflash immediately and to wait and see the result. He expects that there will be a degradation to performance and fuel economy.

2/ you do not have to reflash your car when it is serviced at VW dealer. Only when you are having warranty work carried out, VW insists that the dealer update all the software. But bear in mind that an apprentice can accidental reflash your ECU.

3/ no it cannot be reversed at least by the dealer.

[Carsten]

(installing AdBlue is impossible as aftermarket add-on)

I'm going to call you on that one - they can convert a car to LPG which is a whole more complicated than a bottle of urea injecting into the exhaust stream. Not saying they would do this, but it is an option for VAG.

But, as you say, it is all speculation at this point.

[joel0407]

I'm surprised there isn't more discussion on here about the issue. The Media seem to be making a mountain out of this mole hill.

VW are far from the first and are one of many to take actions to pass emmision tests. I don't think it's cheating. The rules state it must meet this standard and they do (for the test).

It happens at all levels. Look at Holden and their Bi-Model Exhaust. It closes of the exhaust so the vehicle meets noise emmisions but hit the road and the loud peddal and it opens up and makes more noise. But no one seems to mention that in the media.

I see this as only possibly an issue in places where it has been done to pass the emmisions test (some states in the US). The fact is here it wasn't needed to meet the stardard as our standard are not as low. The vehicle still meets the standard even without the so called "Cheat" so why all the fuss? It's just our vehicles have the program as it was a standard program that was installed no matter where the car was being delivered.

Happy Days.

[arcadelt]

I don't think it's cheating. The rules state it must meet this standard and they do (for the test).

Wow, I bet you don't apply the same standard to the doctor you go and see or the engineer that designed the bridge that you drive over every day!

The fact is here it wasn't needed to meet the stardard as our standard are not as low. The vehicle still meets the standard even without the so called "Cheat" so why all the fuss?

Not true. Australia has adopted Euro standards, although implemented quite a bit later than in Europe. If you have a look at my earlier posts you'll see that the two VWs that were tested by the Center for Alternative Fuels, Engines & Emissions at West Virginia University (which broke the scandal) did not meet Euro 4 standards that have been fully in place in Australia since 1 July 2010, nor in some circumstances Euro 3 standards that have been fully applied since 1 January 2006.

It happens at all levels. Look at Holden and their Bi-Model Exhaust. It closes of the exhaust so the vehicle meets noise emmisions but hit the road and the loud peddal and it opens up and makes more noise. But no one seems to mention that in the media.

Agreed...and Harley Davidsons, which in my opinion are the loudest thing on the road and they are still allowed to be sold despite any noise standards.

[theresanothersteve]

So, I'm lucky, my Passat isn't affected however both of my parents cars are (2k11 GTD + 2k13 Tiguan) after speaking to them about this neither is willing to have their car recalled if it's going to affect the performance, this being the reason they brought them. (That and we're a vdub fanfam )
Does anyone actually know how much the performance will be affected by the new software?
Additionally should my parents put their cars in for service, do vdub have to inform them should they decide to upg the software or can they do it surreptitiously?
Last thought, if it is done, can it be reversed to the original software?

According to the test at the link How Much Power Does the VW TDI Lose in "Cheater" Mode? [Video Report] | TFLCar.com: Automotive News, Views and Reviews there is a 10% loss at around 2500 RPM, higher up pretty much line ball.

Admittedly they do not know what fixes VW will apply, but they are comparing cheater mode on and off. I would expect VW will aim to make the motors perform as tested, so this is as good as we will get until 'fixed' cars are available for comparison.

Unfortunately 2500 RPM is where torque makes the car driveable while accelerating, climbing hills, tooling around in traffic....

[joel0407]

According to the test at the link How Much Power Does the VW TDI Lose in "Cheater" Mode? [Video Report] | TFLCar.com: Automotive News, Views and Reviews there is a 10% loss at around 2500 RPM, higher up pretty much line ball.

Admittedly they do not know what fixes VW will apply, but they are comparing cheater mode on and off. I would expect VW will aim to make the motors perform as tested, so this is as good as we will get until 'fixed' cars are available for comparison.

Unfortunately 2500 RPM is where torque makes the car driveable while accelerating, climbing hills, tooling around in traffic....

I'm not convinced their test is right. They state the rear rollers of the dyno are connected via a belt to the front rollers. I suspect their Difference in Power and Torque are contributed more to extra drag of the belt and rear tyres than the tune change.

I have spent most of the night reading what I can find about this. I now suspect they may have achieved similar power and torque during the test but the car would use more fuel. The extra fuel is needed to heat the DPF where the remaining oxygen is burnt. Using up more "O" (Oxygen) leaves less for the NOX. Nitrogen is fine but Nitrogen Oxide is not.

I've read comments that companies that are considered lesser tech advanced than VW make more power from similar size motors and still meet the standard. Running the engine richer in fuel meant more power and less Oxygen in the exhaust for the above mentioned result. It's easier to meet the standard if you forget about fuel economy.

Happy Days.

[DaSkwurl]

I'm surprised there isn't more discussion on here about the issue. The Media seem to be making a mountain out of this mole hill.

Lol, that says something about the quality of members / vdub tdi drivers I guess...
We don't need to get carried away fretting abt something without gathering info first.
/ego stroke

[Bayman]

It's easier to meet the standard if you forget about fuel economy.

This will trigger a running costs factor which would be the basis of any class action claim, COMPENSATION!

[Cossor]

So far what I have heard or read, possible solutions would be for cars without AdBlue, would be a software update only (installing AdBlue is impossible as aftermarket add-on) which would increase the amount of fuel added for higher combustion temperature which in return would reduce NOx.

For cars with AdBlue, it would increase the amount of AdBlue to be injected to reduce NOx and those engines would have reduced power output so it would meet the emissions regulations.

But so for is only a speculation until VW has a official solution to the problem.

MB site interesting re AdBlue.
Uses about 1L per 1000K
AdBlue tank must be flushed every 'B' service.
Once container opened, residual cannot be left in container.
Must be kept in cool location. So if car is parked in sun on typical 35degree day,
this could have serious deterioration of AdBlue in car tank

[Transporter]

Lol, that says something about the quality of members / vdub tdi drivers I guess...
We don't need to get carried away fretting abt something without gathering info first.
/ego stroke

I agree, though it's kind of confusing as well. Because some people's reactions are more like their car purchase was made on some other not logical to me facts. Like, does it pass the California emission test? Rather than, how the car drives and handles, is it economical and is the price still fair? I believe that the later are the right reasons why people buy their VW.