Changes to NSW P Plate rules afoot?

[The_Hawk]

It's been discussed back and forth on here many times, but I was just reading this article:
P plate laws NSW | P-plater laws NSW | banned P plate cars

I can't seem to find an official RMS website to back that up, but it's where things have been heading.

The article isn't detailed enough, but I still believe they will limit the "performance" versions of cars (like the Golf GTI/R etc) (I wonder if the Scirroco is it's own class there for the "only" turbo (if under the limit?)??)

Still, for reference, here are some numbers I did a while back (I'm guessing from the Mk5 days):

Golf 77TDI (DSG) is 77kW @ 1,330 = ~58kW/T
Golf 103TDI (DSG) is 103kW @ 1,380 = ~75kW/T
Golf 90TSI (DSG) is 90kW @ 1,290 = ~70kW/T
Golf 118TSI (DSG) is 118kW @ 1,330 = ~89kW/T
Golf GTI (DSG) is 155kW @ 1,380kg = ~112kW/T
Golf R32 (DSG) is 184kW @ 1,530kg = ~120kW/T

I'm not in a position to update them just now, but would guess there are still in that ball park so meaning the GTI and R are likely under the limit but excluded simply because they are the "performance" versions"?

[Ryan_R]

We first heard about this maybe last year when Ford wanted to release a turbocharged eco vehicle aimed at young drivers. There will be a thread about it here somewhere. It was insane how a P plater could legally drive a Mk5 R32 but not a Mk6 77TSI without written approval.

The other loophole of course it buying a forced induction car that's just under 130kw/tonne and then remapping the ECU. Discrete enough for them to never know (depending on how discrete the driver is of course).

It's quite a fair limit - the Mk6 GTI would come under it (assuming 155kw and 1.4 tonnes = 110kw/tonne)

[LunchboxVRS]

They didn't think it through when it first come in. You couldn't drive a 253 v8 kingswood at two ton and 70kw but a non turbo 911 with over 260kw and 0-100 in 4.3sec borrowed from mommy or daddy was ok. And cars like the smart fourtwo was banned with its massive 45kw three cylinder engine because it was turbo.

Having a kw per ton limit is still not a easy answer. A 190kw falcon may be slower of the mark due to its weight but it still has enough power/torque to spin the wheels at speed or lose traction around a corner when the pedal is mashed into the floor and get them into trouble.

But then again I had a liberty GT spec B which I tweaked to 183kw at the wheels. You could not get the thing sideways it just gripped. Even int he wet the wheels would not spin but that's all wheel drive for you.

They won't find a perfect solution. There better of spending there time and money on education and driving classes instead of wasting there time banning cars.

[The_Hawk]

We first heard about this maybe last year when Ford wanted to release a turbocharged eco vehicle aimed at young drivers. There will be a thread about it here somewhere.

That may have been the thread I copied those figures from. Yep been talking about it for a long while, good to see if finally happening, although as I said I struggle a little to see why a 110kw/t GTI is out because it's the "performance" model yet a Falcadore with more power than that is just fine and dandy. That old thread I think I actually had figures for all the big names including the new eco boost Falcon... will have to go and see if I can hunt it up.

Why exactly this issue bothers me I don't know, it's not like I had any of these restrictions back when I first got my license.

[h100vw]

That may have been the thread I copied those figures from. Yep been talking about it for a long while, good to see if finally happening, although as I said I struggle a little to see why a 110kw/t GTI is out because it's the "performance" model yet a Falcadore with more power than that is just fine and dandy. That old thread I think I actually had figures for all the big names including the new eco boost Falcon... will have to go and see if I can hunt it up.

Why exactly this issue bothers me I don't know, it's not like I had any of these restrictions back when I first got my license.

In my day, some time in the distant past, you couldn't get insured in anything remotely quick. Problem solvered.

Yeah, you could drive anything once you passed your test, but income dictated what you actually had.

First car Mini 1000. Double

[stickshift3000]

These power limit regulations are pointless and do little to actually reduce road trauma and fatalities.

Ongoing education and training are the ways forward.

[pologti18t]

These power limit regulations are pointless and do little to actually reduce road trauma and fatalities.

Ongoing education and training are the ways forward.

So explain all the reduction in P plater fatalities in NSW? 130 in 2000, 65 in 2012
In that time the power restrictions were introduced (2005+) and other P1/P2 restrictions.
The only other changes of note were increased L supervised (120hrs) hours (2007) and the hazard perception test.

There has been no additional formal/structured learning applied to P Platers.

[The_Hawk]

Better policing and media campaigns designed to encoure people to slow down and drive safer.
Cars are safer resulting in less injury after an accident coupled with the fact that even the "cheap" older cars P platers can afford have vastly more safety features than the equivalent a decade ago.
As you said, more hours behind the wheel + more stringent testing...

And lets not also forget that P platers are now on P's for THREE years instead of the old one year...
(which means the numbers should have tripled (or at least gone up significantly at some point too??)

I'm sure there are a range of factors and it depends on how you choose to look at them.

[stickshift3000]

So explain all the reduction in P plater fatalities in NSW? 130 in 2000, 65 in 2012
In that time the power restrictions were introduced (2005+) and other P1/P2 restrictions.

As the Hawk says, there are many more factors at play than just these couple of regulatory changes.

I'd imagine that the number of P plater fatalities has decreased in all states in this period, regardless of what regulations were introduced.

[The_Hawk]

Another article that doesn't say too much from yesterday:
NSW to change P-plate laws too - motoring.com.au

and some new numbers for reference:

Mk 7 Golf
Golf GTI (DSG) is 162kW @ 1,324kg = ~122kW/t
Golf GTI Performance (DSG) 169kW @ 1,364kg = ~123kW/t
Golf R (DSG) is 206kW @ 1,435kg = ~143kW/t

Polo GTI (DSG) is 132kW @ 1,189kg = ~111kW/t

Scirocco R (DSG) is 188kW @ 1,371kg = ~137kW/t

Holden Commodore Evoke is 185kW @ 1,622kg = ~114kW/t
Holden Commodore Calais is 210kw @ 1,702kg = ~123kW/t

Ford Falcon i6 is 195kW @ 1710kg = ~114kW/t
Ford Falcon 2.0L Ecoboost is 179kW @ 1648kg = ~109kW/t
Ford Falcon EcoLPI V6 is 198kW @ 1751kg = ~113kW/t
Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo is 270kW @ 1710kg = ~158kW/t