Bad road times here...

[Preen59]

I feel that one of the biggest problems is that the RTA (or equivalent) is telling people "Drive to the conditions", but they aren't actually training people in how to do that.

You can't learn to drive by answering multiple choice questions or reading a book.. You need to be out in those conditions with someone that knows what they are doing (NOT the parents of the kids on L plates etc.. I know it's not just young drivers, but that's where everyone started their bad habits..) and being shown how to control your vehicle in those situations.

Lowering speed limits, putting in variable speed zones and putting up "slippery when wet" signs is pointless when people aren't obeying the bloody things anyway..

[Rocket36]

Agreed! The complete lack of any proper training before getting a licence in Australia is pathetic! It costs about the same as $12,000 AUD for the required training in a lot of European countries before you get a licence. Makes for safer roads because the drivers are better trained.

[Preen59]

Agreed! The complete lack of any proper training before getting a licence in Australia is pathetic! It costs about the same as $12,000 AUD for the required training in a lot of European countries before you get a licence. Makes for safer roads because the drivers are better trained.

Yep.

They're stating that driving is supposed to be a privilege and not a right, but..

The Authorities are always contradicting themselves too. The RTA put a ban on forced induction, V8's and high performance 6 cylinder cars for P platers and then made an exemption for the Holden 'S' pack commodore and the Ford XR6 because "These cars are very common in households and it would disadvantage too many young drivers to ban them"..

So in one breath, "Hey, if you want to drive a car you have to do it by OUR rules.." And then in the next breath "Oh, no, you can drive THAT particular high performance vehicle, we know there's too many of you whose fathers have one and it would be unfair to disallow you to drive it.."

-Mandatory complex driver training.
-Mandatory power to weight limit for young drivers with no exceptions.
-Mandatory refresher driving tests for EVERYONE focusing on car control and perception, not just whether you can do a hill start..

If you can't drive Daddy's XR6 or mummys CLK, harden up and go buy yourself a Corolla.

[Maverick]

Agreed! Drive like you're invisible. Adhere to the road rules, drive to the conditions, the limits of your car and the limits of your skill but most importantly, PAY ATTENTION TO DRIVING!

I agree with most of that except the road rules part and this is part of the problem, overtaking safely requires you to exceed the speed limit even if there is an overtaking lane and driving at a safe speed which minimises fatigue and time on the road also requires you to exceed the speed limit. The whole "speed kills" rubbish has to end and the government needs to address the real issues not just one that is easy to measure and police using cameras.

[maca]

Yep.

They're stating that driving is supposed to be a privilege and not a right, but..

The Authorities are always contradicting themselves too. The RTA put a ban on forced induction, V8's and high performance 6 cylinder cars for P platers and then made an exemption for the Holden 'S' pack commodore and the Ford XR6 because "These cars are very common in households and it would disadvantage too many young drivers to ban them"..

So in one breath, "Hey, if you want to drive a car you have to do it by OUR rules.." And then in the next breath "Oh, no, you can drive THAT particular high performance vehicle, we know there's too many of you whose fathers have one and it would be unfair to disallow you to drive it.."

-Mandatory complex driver training.
-Mandatory power to weight limit for young drivers with no exceptions.
-Mandatory refresher driving tests for EVERYONE focusing on car control and perception, not just whether you can do a hill start..

If you can't drive Daddy's XR6 or mummys CLK, harden up and go buy yourself a Corolla.

Well said Preeny. That exemption is a load of rubbish and shouldn't be allowed. In QLD; I wouldn't be allowed to drive a gutless C200 Kompressor but it's perfectly legal for me to drive an R32.. Makes sense doesn't it?

I agree with most of that except the road rules part and this is part of the problem, overtaking safely requires you to exceed the speed limit even if there is an overtaking lane and driving at a safe speed which minimises fatigue and time on the road also requires you to exceed the speed limit. The whole "speed kills" rubbish has to end and the government needs to address the real issues not just one that is easy to measure and police using cameras.

I don't see the point in overtaking if you're already going the speed limit... And let's face it, speed cameras are only there to raise money. If they weren't, they wouldn't use black vans at night and almost hide them so they're invisible on the aide of the road.

[Coaster]

I nearly had a serious crash yesterday. Riding my bicycle, coming up to a roundabout I slowed down, there was a commodore slowly coming up to the roundabout on the left, so I thought he'd seen me and I made my way through the roundabout. Except the commy kept going through! It was a matter of inches between my bike and their bumper, luckily they saw me at the very last moment. I had to stretch my bike as far out of the way as possible, I really thought they were going to hit me, I was just waiting for the crunch.

The number of times I have nearly been hit by cars not paying attention when they pull out from intersections and roundabouts beggars belief. And I always present myself front and centre coming up to the roundabout with a bright red t-shirt on with a big gold star on the front.

I have learnt to establish eye contact with drivers as they pull up to these places so I know they've seen me, but with window tinting that is impossible sometimes. It's only for the fact that I have pre-empted the sloppy skills of drivers that has kept me from being hit by other road-users.

This story is symptomatic of the poor attention of many drivers that invariably lead to crashes with all manner of transport on the road.

[mikinoz]

I am really moved by the Tasmanian road toll this year.

Statistically, it is far less than in the pre 1970's where over 100 people a year died in Tasmania - but this drives home a real point that there are issues.

My brother in law has been a driving instructor for the RACT for 5 years and now is on the Transport licence testing team - who do your testing for 'P' plates etc. He has told me that he has made a personal decision to be more diligent at making sure that those that should not be getting their provisionals fail their test - and make sure that they are aware that they are not invincible from the get go.

I used to drive the highway that the fatalities occurred on 2 time a week for 3 years and the number of near misses I had in peak times went beyond 2 hands. In the end I travelled after 10pm to have the road to myself.

9 people in a population of 500K is a considerable toll for a single day - I hope there are moves to improve transport in the state.

Take care Andrew.

[gtimk5]

Interesting statistic in the paper here yesterday,
If the same percentage of population died in one day in NSW then that would equate to 126 lives.
And to the number on the Midlands hwy, if it happened on the M3, I think it was, which is roughly the same distance then it would equate to 89 lives in a single day.
Sort of puts things in perspective and I am sure you all can feel the grief going on down here.
The police and the local radio stations are now having a "dob in stupid behaviour" with a dedicated phone line for the police to monitor.
With an AFL game going on up north today I imagine there will be a huge police presence on the highway.
High visibility police cars rather than having them hidden behind trees with cameras would help a bit.
It is interesting that with all the narrow windy roads down here most of the accidents are on straight boring roads......
All said though, its no use blaming any one problem, it should be a combined effort by everyone, from politicians and police to every individual driver to work on this problem.....
Andrew

[h100vw]

Agreed! The complete lack of any proper training before getting a licence in Australia is pathetic! It costs about the same as $12,000 AUD for the required training in a lot of European countries before you get a licence. Makes for safer roads because the drivers are better trained.

It's no where near that in the UK. I know Germany is harder but doubt it's anywhere near as much.

I reckon some time on a motorbike would change the standard of driving. You certainly consider the road surface and conditions more.

Eyeballing car drivers at junctions works for me, in the car and on a push bike. It's much harder for them to pull the didn't see you card when you know full well they looked right at you.

I am stunned that Australian society hasn't called for a change in the rules, preventing young kids going out in anything with rear wheel drive.

When I learnt to drive, no one could afford to drive anything that was remotely considered to be performance oriented. You never saw someone at Uni in a VR6 Golf or Polo GTI( or the equivalent from 20 years ago) they'd be walking or taking a bus.

There's more cars on the road now and if miles travelled were taken into consideration then the toll has most likely reduced overall. That doesn't mean it's at acceptable level as far as the public is concerned.

Awareness and anticipation will go a long way to preventing accidents/crashes but will never eradicate them.

Gavin

[Maverick]

I don't see the point in overtaking if you're already going the speed limit...

The whole idea of overtaking is to pass slower moving vehicles like trucks, caravans and old people.

Let's assume a truck doing 90kph in a 100kph zone. You want to overtake this truck legally by not exceeding 100kph. How many kilometres of clear road will this require?

~2kms

Or the same truck that is doing 95kph.

~4 kms

90kph is 25m/s
100kph is 27.8m/s

Distance to pass:[/B] 90m
2 seconds gap from truck is 50m
Car is 5m
Truck is 25m
Allow 10m clearance in front of truck to pull back in
That's 90m you have to cover on the wrong side of the road
Time to pass is: 90m divided by 2.8m/s = 32.1 seconds
Distance to pass: 27.8m/s times 31.2s = 867m
Allowance for oncoming traffic doing 100kph: 867m
Distance required to pass (867 + 867 + 10% safety margin): 1900m.

Let's break the law and overtake at 120kph and it's a completely different scenario.

120kph = 33.3m/s
Time to pass is: 90m divided by 8.3m/s = 10.8 seconds
Distance to pass: 33.3m/s times 10.8s = 359m
Allowance for oncoming traffic doing 120kph: 359m
Distance required to pass (359 + 359 + 10% safety margin): 789m.

Let's move into the lose your license scenario and overtake at 140kph and it's a completely different scenario again.

140kph = 38.8m/s
Time to pass is: 90m divided by 13.8m/s = 6.52 seconds
Distance to pass: 38.8m/s times 6.52s = 252m
Allowance for oncoming traffic doing 140kph: 252m
Distance required to pass (252 + 252 + 10% safety margin): 554m.

And let's face it, speed cameras are only there to raise money. If they weren't, they wouldn't use black vans at night and almost hide them so they're invisible on the aide of the road.

They're not black but navy blue!