Volkswagenist
There is a lot of discussion here about mods to make cars handle better.
But what does that mean? Why are some of the mods mentioned controversial?
One of the keys is to honestly define what your goals are - ie how you drive. It's no good saying that you want your car to have maximum grip through corners, not be affected by bumps, be stable / agile / comfortable / invigorating / relaxing....
It won't happen - especially not with cars with a torsion beam rear end (Golfs Mk1-4, Polos etc).
And it's no good pining for a racetrack optimised setup when driving through the hills or along the coast is your goal.
Thousands of posts on the web attempt to dissect handling but some of the best I have found were posted on another VW site which came out of a discussion on the VW Vortex site. The best part is that after these 2 introductory posts on basic definitions, the 2 authors post about traits and modification specific to cars with MacPherson Strut front ends and Torsion Beam rear ends - ie a LOT of cars on this forum.
The actual thread is cluttered with not particularly helpful comments by other posters so I'll link the relevent posts here
Why does my car understeer?
What do I want out of my car?
Last edited by kaanage; 07-02-2013 at 03:20 PM.
Resident grumpy old fart
VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS
Volkswagenist
Resident grumpy old fart
VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS
Volkswagen Fan
Thanks kaanage, a good read. It helped explain to me some of the "suck it and see" things I did to my XU-1 millions of years ago.
2012 MK6 GTD CW DSG Seattle's 3M Black Tint, Michelin PS3's.
Volkswagenist
Actually, it gets better as they start discussing the ramifications of mods for the usages described in the 2nd post
Autocross Suspensions
Shine Racing Services were a US VW tuning company that developed a very fast MkIII Golf race car. Sadly, they closed late last year but the link is to their info page which has some interesting observations and opinions.
Road Racing, and the Shine Real Street Suspension Part a
Road Racing, and the Shine Real Street Suspension Part b
And now they get into suspension geometry effects
Roll Centers and Weight Transfer Part a
Roll Centers and Weight Transfer Part b
Last edited by kaanage; 07-02-2013 at 09:08 PM.
Resident grumpy old fart
VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS
Sponsor
Some interesting reading so far!
Volkswagenist
Finally the topic is wrapped up with discussion of GT (fast safe road use) driving
GT Suspension Part a
GT Suspension Part b (Rear Anti Roll Bar with Stock Springs) and Conclusion
I hope others found these links as informative and enjoyable as I did.
There are some other snippets from the thread which were interesting to further discuss certain points which I may dig out and link up.
Resident grumpy old fart
VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS
Volkswagen Fan
Id like to input some real world average driver experience - a larger rear bar upgrade (on a porky mkv gti) tightens up the handling - it does not make the car unstable like discussed. Alittle unbalanced , but still very safe. Even excessive heat in the tyres and speed on the track , i couldnt get the car into a controlled slide. Very safe !
Unless you are overspeeding or shifting the weight on bald tyres or a very wet surface there isnt a chance to slide the back out at all.
Definitely getting the front upgraded too !
Volkswagen Fan
The article is good but possibly is also good to keep in mind it is discussing a Mk4 which has different suspension to the Mk5 (as it discusses).
Plus the Mk5 has ESP. Even when it is "off" the program running only really allows wheelspin with minimal increase in allowable slide before it pulls you into line again. Not that you'd want to disable this for a road car, i am positive this feature has saved my hide before.
BTW @ bennjamin, what you describe in your second last sentence is exactly what the article on the tdiclub forum is talking about preventing for a road car. :p
Last edited by Tom87; 10-02-2013 at 03:08 PM.
Volkswagen Fan
Yeah i definitely replied with a "from a hoon on the track" perspective lol. You are totally right the car is doing alot of work keeping the chassis neutral and safeOriginally Posted by Tom87
Volkswagenist
Exactly. The multi-link rear end makes a car much more forgiving than the torsion beam.
That said, I have been on a cruise in the hills where a MkV R32 dropped really low and with a massive rear ARB ended up off the road from snap lift off oversteer, so it is important not to over do things (I'm guessing the car felt really "pointy" in normal conditions).
Resident grumpy old fart
VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS
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