Lucas' Golf R

[Frazza]

Was that on an AWD Dyno or just 2 wheel drive, your KW's are what i would expect for your mods but i would have thought the torque should be way higher than that. What was the mods since the last tune?

[Lucas_R]

Good stuff! Surprised the heat didn't have more of an effect

Same here - i was a bit worried about the heat but it was ok. Its quite warm today and the car was run at about 1.30pm too.

Was that on an AWD Dyno or just 2 wheel drive, your KW's are what i would expect for your mods but i would have thought the torque should be way higher than that. What was the mods since the last tune?

Yeah Chris its on a Mainline AWD dyno. Re the torque figures you are talking about....its the BPS dyno thats out of whack im sure. Ive mentioned this several times before on VWGolf.net about the BPS dyno. It seems to read ok on kw but the torque is way exagerrated. Perhaps they use a different setting to attain torque on a Dyno Dynamics machine?

Just think about it for a second - the Golf R makes 330nm at the crank when stock. So this would equate to around 280nm at the wheels approx. So to even be able to make 330nm at the wheels, the car is going to need considerable modifications. The BPS cars (even stage 1) are all making 450nm+ at the wheels which just isn't feesable with just a re-tune.

On this same dyno, my car made the following:
- Bluefin stage 1 tune = 319nm
- DNA stage 3 tune = 380nm (downpipe / HPFP / intercooler)

If you look at the Dyno thread on VW.Golf.net you will see that none of the stage 2+ Golf R's are making anywhere near 450nm.

[VWindahouse]

I don't think BPS is that far off the mark as I have other atw torque figures from a Dynodynamics dyno elsewhere that were within 10Nms of the one at BPS

But you could be right about settings as I'm 28Nms less on Guys hub dyno.

[Frazza]

Yeah Chris its on a Mainline AWD dyno. Re the torque figures you are talking about....its the BPS dyno thats out of whack im sure. Ive mentioned this several times before on VWGolf.net about the BPS dyno. It seems to read ok on kw but the torque is way exagerrated. Perhaps they use a different setting to attain torque on a Dyno Dynamics machine?

Just think about it for a second - the Golf R makes 330nm at the crank when stock. So this would equate to around 280nm at the wheels approx. So to even be able to make 330nm at the wheels, the car is going to need considerable modifications. The BPS cars (even stage 1) are all making 450nm+ at the wheels which just isn't feesable with just a re-tune.

On this same dyno, my car made the following:
- Bluefin stage 1 tune = 319nm
- DNA stage 3 tune = 380nm (downpipe / HPFP / intercooler)

If you look at the Dyno thread on VW.Golf.net you will see that none of the stage 2+ Golf R's are making anywhere near 450nm.

Not sure but my stock dyno figures from BPS are pretty much spot on with what you are saying, we don't see any stage 1 cars with 450+, even when we ran the APR car on the BPS dyno we got similar figures to what they were getting from other dynos. Using your figures of 330nm equates to 280nm then the same goes for 188kw equates to 159kw, if thats the case then why are your KW figures so high, just really interesting that all, your car looks and goes well.

I wasn't having a dig or anything it was more that when you look at other torque figures on other peoples dyno charts (Not BPS) they were higher and KW a lot less, Was just curios

[Lucas_R]

Yeh i realise your not having a dig mate - all cool.

I just looked at the dyno page on your thread and the torque on your stock tune is approx 380nm at the wheels. This is what im trying to explain - if the car makes 330nm at the engine when stock, then how can it be making 380nm at the wheels? It doesn't add up. Do you see where im coming from?

You say that a stock R should have approx 159kw at the wheels. I agree that this figure is reasonable. My car made 166kw on this same dyno about 18 months ago with the stock tune (only mod was the VWR intake). The torque was about 290nm.

Then with Bluefin stage 1 the car made 186kw and 318nm on the same dyno.

Then a while later i fitted a downpipe and swapped the tune from Bluefin over to DNA. This was DNA's stage 1 tune but the addition of the downpipe makes is basically a stage 2 level. I went to the Sydney dyno day and the car made 204kw and 354nm. This dyno was being a bit generous that day, so im happy to take off 10kw and 20nm or so (although apply this same relative reduction to the other cars too).

Then today, back on the same dyno i used for my stock run and Bluefin stage 1 run, the car made 208kw and 380nm.

If you compare these results to other people with the same level of tune (APR 2+ / GIAC Extreme etc) its pretty much in line with them.

[Frazza]

Yeh i realise your not having a dig mate - all cool.

Then today, back on the same dyno i used for my stock run and Bluefin stage 1 run, the car made 208kw and 380nm.

If you compare these results to other people with the same level of tune (APR 2+ / GIAC Extreme etc) its pretty much in line with them.

Yeah very true, i guess its a matter of sticking with the same dyno and working your way from there and not trying to think someone else's results on a totally different dyno can be comparable to your own. We always think the mainline KW figure are way higher than ours so it's all pretty much the same thing i guess.

I think someone said that down the quarter mile is the only real way to know.

I was curious what mods you did between the two of yours cause you said you did some changes

[Lucas_R]

Yes i would be interested to run my car on the BPS dyno to see what would come of it - wonder how different it would be. I guess my mistake was getting one of my dyno runs done in Sydney as its the odd one out. My other 3 runs have been on the same machine and i will continue to use this same one from now on.

Yes the 1/4 mile is a very good indicator of power, but it doesnt interest me if im honest for several reasons:
- closest strip is 3hrs away
- not a fan of flogging the beegesus out of my car
- would rather do a track day session if i was going to take it to a track.

Things i changed on the car since my last dyno are:
- intercooler
- HPFP and RS4 Rail valve
- DNA revised tune (they call it stage 3 but other companies call it stage 2+).
- Neuspeed discharge pipe (from turbo to intercooler)
- BSH charge pipe (from intercooler to throttle body).

[Lucas_R]

Some new vid's. Shot with my iPhone and they were all spare-of-the-moment decisions - so excuse the poor quality and my shaky hand.

Dyno run last week: (note the difference in sound at about 23-24 seconds in the first video when the exhaust flapper valve opens up.)






Exhaust clip (cold start with 42DD downpipe):

[HaydEn]

Just had a thought. Not sure if you have already realized this.

But. Didn't you swap dump pipes since your last dyno day?

Perhaps the 42DD dump doesn't perform as well?

[Lucas_R]

The only real difference between the two dump pipes is that the 42DD has a resonator. Other than that, they are both 3 inch, with a 200 cel cat etc, so very similar otherwise. Even if the 42DD didnt perform as well (which i doubt), im happy with that because my old dump pipe sounded like shyte and i hated it.

I think the reason why there isnt a huge difference between my last two dyno runs (4kw and 30nm difference) is because the Sydney dyno (when the car made 204kw and 354nm) was being a bit generous. Honestly, around 210-215kw is about the absolute limit of these turbos on this engine (without fitting WMI), so considering this is an internet tune and i have the convenience of a hand controller to load up the tune etc, im pretty happy.

FYI - here is a link to another R that was run on a dyno last week. This guy is in WA, but his mods are essentially identical to mine and the workshop has the same brand of dyno. The results are essentially identical: http://www.vwgolf.net.au/showthread....l=1#post300750

Looks like he is running about 1.5psi of boost less than my car. Apart from that, power and torque is very similar on both cars (note his dyno starts from about 3,000rpm so you dont see the boost spike on the graph).