Is your DSG dying? Or is it just the Dual Mass Flywheel?

[Buller_Scott]

hi guys, how are youse?

i've searched here but couldnt find anything really, but forgive me if this is a double-post. im sure peeps in here would know this, but i didnt, and i reckon the info might hopefully help people with DSG's who are fearful of replacement costs.

so i was searching the internet for info on whether or no you have to "bed in" a newly installed clutch, before giving it the beans... and of course, it dawned on me to check tdiclub.

now, i've been reading a VERY interesting thread regarding people with DSG tdi's with more than 60,000 miles or so, who are getting the symptoms of a dying DSG:

- grinding at idle
- rattling noise from transmission area at idle
- vibration when in gear, park, whilst driving
- vibration during shut down
- etc...

i for one always took it for granted that the DSG was some fancy thing with two fancy unconventional clutches, not really knowing how it worked, and that if the above symptoms started to show up you had no choice but to replace the whole thing, at $10,000 or whatever.

a tdiclub member took his car, with the above noises, to a dealership, and was informed by the VW dealer service manager, service advisor, and senior tech that the sounds from the transmission were ''within tolerance'', ''normal and will not affect the car", and that diagnostic scans had returned a clean bill of health.

he was also told explicitly by the people above that the DSG does NOT have a dual mass flywheel, but rather "just a flywheel", attributing the sounds to clogged fuel filter, or perhaps fuel pump.

later, a mechanic in the dealership took the box apart to find this:



now, the rest of the thread is quite long, but from what i can gather, people have been identifying these sounds/ aural symptoms as they start occurring more often, and have been able to rectify the issue not by parting with ten grand, but rather replacing what are evidently failed dual mass flywheels that are in the DSG box itself.

the costs seem SIGNIFICANTLY lower than a whole new DSG box, as what is involved now is a replacement DSG dmf (updated/newer part numbers are listed in the thread) and around 10 hours labor to change the failed dmf out - in fact, b1llyb0y from this forum posted $1600 for the dmf plus labor.

i'll let you guys get into the thread here.

posts that came in particularly useful to me, so far, are:
#1 (obviously), 5, 20, 57, 108...

enjoy!

p.s. i posted this here as i found the info on tdiclub, but if this info is applicable to others, perhaps this thread title could be listed in other sections? it seems like many of the models have had some sort of DSG issue, be they polos, golfs, tiguans etc, and it would be rad if more people in the community knew about this, rather than take it for granted that they're going to have to pay large for a new gearbox.

[Idle]

If this happened to me and the car was out of warranty I'd be looking for a one-piece flywheel.

Slightly less smooth clutch takeup, perhaps, but no springs to fail either.

[Ryan_R]

Interesting thing for me is that the TDI's have the (supposedly) more reliable 6-speed DSG. Are there a lot of complaints about this?

[jazd]

Cheers, will have VW check this out on mine. I have it booked in to get the DSG looked at soon. Thought it was a mechatronic fauliure but maybe its this.

Haven't really noticed any weird noises but the 2nd-1st shift is bad.

Interesting thing for me is that the TDI's have the (supposedly) more reliable 6-speed DSG. Are there a lot of complaints about this?

The #1 on the tdiclub thread states the fault occurred on a HXU gearbox which is 6 speed DSG.

[gldgti]

yeah but this is not a geabox failure, its a DMF failure.

Cheers, will have VW check this out on mine. I have it booked in to get the DSG looked at soon. Thought it was a mechatronic fauliure but maybe its this.

Haven't really noticed any weird noises but the 2nd-1st shift is bad.


The #1 on the tdiclub thread states the fault occurred on a HXU gearbox which is 6 speed DSG.

[Willo9891]

Have had my MK VI 103 TDI Golf for about 10 months now... Have already clocked up 49000K's, I started noticing similar symptoms with mine in the earlier stages and have recently started noticing that occasionally the shift down from 2nd to 1st is rough and feels almost like the car is going to stall. I also had the same issue with the Volkswagen dealership at Gosford telling me that it was an issue with the high pressure fuel pump but its completely normal. Think I am going to print these posts off and take them in with me...

[nutttr]

Best idea is to leave the car outside overnight and put it in neutral/park and start it. If you listen under the gearbox/flywheel area (get someone to start it for you ) you should hear a "can of marbles" rattling type sound for a while... That's the best way to tell you have a dead DMF... All it is is that the spring in the DMF wears out/breaks and rattles like nothing else... But generally only makes itself really known on a cold start on a cold morning.

If you search YouTube for "can of marbles dual mass flywheel" I'm sure there will be clips of the noise.

Good news is that if you ring ASV Spares in brookvale you should be able to get the genuine Sachs parts for under 1k...

[nutttr]

This clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reyxT...e_gdata_player

Will give you an idea of the sound. Revving in idle will make the sound stop... Under the car it really sounds like a can of marbles.

[Bug_racer]

Ive changed quite a few and keep one flywheel in stock all the time .
The art is trying to diagnose the flywheel noise before it destroys the back input shaft on the bearing cup / bearing

[jazd]

Can those in the know have a look at this clip and tell me if there is too much play in the DMF? I suspect my car (the second) definitely has an issue, what about the first?