Who is using 2 stroke in their Diesel?

[Gigitt]

Hey.
Does either of the vehicles have a dpf?
Thanks for the input. I just cant see how it would harm anything. Nothing like a bit of upper cylinder lubrication
Nick

the 1996 Mk3 TDI and the 1996 LR Defender 130 300TDI both do not have DPF.

[kaanage]

The DPF can be damaged if you use synthetic. Stick to castor oils and you'll be fine. Castrol R30, Shell Racing M, etc.

I would have thought that the bean oil would be more likely to leave deposits in the DPF - the synthetics are forumulated to burn very clean (as you found with the karts) largely to prevent sticking exhaust valves on performance 2-stroke engines.

I am thinking of this Penrite oil.
MARINE OUTBOARD TWO STROKE OIL - Penrite Oil
Its zero ash and adheres to TC W3 spec.
I use elf racing oil for my rotax but have used shell m in the kart but found it leaves a varnish that can block things up. I did find however that my RX7 used to go real well with my leftover kart fuel that had shell m in it.
If i use the no ash penrite and only use 200ML pet tank.. I just cant see how it will stuff things up honest. If you consider the egr valve and how it spews soot straight into the inlet tract (provent on soon) how can a little bit of oil stuff things.. given that diesel is well um oil...

Yep, that's the Penrite equivalent to the stuff I'm using.

As you will have noted from the previous threads here + the big one on the Freelander 2 site, there are proponents and opponents to this practice and both sides can get pretty strident about the matter.

I will add that I spent literally months looking into this and could not find a single case where it was documented that using low ash 2-stroke oil in a diesel caused any damage. One of the forum members here who does use it told me that it is the ONLY additive that he has used that has made any noticable improvement in the behaviour of his diesel and the Freelander thread contains a couple of cases that are similar. Of course there are others that state it made no noticable difference (I'm one but I still use it as a form of preventative maintenance).

[Preen59]

I would have thought that the bean oil would be more likely to leave deposits in the DPF - the synthetics are forumulated to burn very clean (as you found with the karts) largely to prevent sticking exhaust valves on performance 2-stroke engines.

Yes, that is true. But it is due to the lower combustion temperature. At a higher temperature, the castor burns cleanly.

When I did the research, what I could gather is that the synthetics had a higher ash content and therefore "may" cause the DPF to clog faster. Greg Roles has done some research into this- Probably more than me.

Anyways, it's up to the individual whether they use an "untested" additive or not. Personally, I haven't seen any harm.

[duderduderini]

If you look at it in persepctive I add 25mL per litre in my rotax kart engine.. If you race a yamaha its 40ml per litre as the yammie is air cooled vs water cooled for the Rotax.
How much damage could 200ml in 50 litres of diesel do? or put another way the ratio in diesel is 4ml a litre. Shell m whilst being a good oil was prone to clogging up the dellorto carby on the rotax.. I noticed also more deposits than with the elf oil I currently run in the rotax so it burns hot but not as hot as a yamaha air cooled engine..
Anyways I will try the no ash oil and see for myself.

[Preen59]

Yes, the only way to tell is to try it yourself.



I should have clarified.. Referring to a higher combustion temp, I meant 2stroke VS diesel.

We run 60ml to a litre in the J and the S.. Reason? Top secret. Haha.

[kaanage]

16.7:1 ? That's a lot but then I can't remember what ratio I ran in the S (I used R30).

With the GP bikes we found that using Amsoil 100:1 oil at 50:1 or even 40:1 gave better performance than at the recommended ratio - probably had to do with better lubrication of the big end roller bearings in our case. The guys who ran A747 (semi synth/castor) used to run at around 30 or 25:1

The 2-stroke oil is supposed to make the diesel burn at a slightly higher temp as well giving more complete combustion. Some claim that it raises the cetane number slightly as a result.

[Preen59]

16.7:1 ? That's a lot but then I can't remember what ratio I ran in the S (I used R30).

With the GP bikes we found that using Amsoil 100:1 oil at 50:1 or even 40:1 gave better performance than at the recommended ratio - probably had to do with better lubrication of the big end roller bearings in our case. The guys who ran A747 (semi synth/castor) used to run at around 30 or 25:1

The 2-stroke oil is supposed to make the diesel burn at a slightly higher temp as well giving more complete combustion. Some claim that it raises the cetane number slightly as a result.

We run a little over 60. 15-16:1. Complicated reasoning, not the thread for it etc.


Yes that is what I can gather, too. From what I've read, guys have seen reduced soot buildup and actually "cleaning" of the exhaust housing of the turbo by running it.

[WEDEL.1]

I've been using 2 stroke oil for 12 months without incident. No DPF here but I still use Jasco FC oil, so far Castrol.

Maris

[duderduderini]

Hey
So is fd lower ash than fc? I read a bit on the net about the tcw3 spec and it seems the engines that have used it poo themselves so not many maufacturers recommend it
The Late Great Oil Debate
then read this
"Ashless" TCW3 vs. "Low Ash" JASO/ISO 2 stroke oil
So can a tcw3 oil even at the small dilution one would use here result in piston ring sticking etc?
I then found this and note castor oil didnt do to well
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0
So WTF? The people that are using it dont have the dpf to worry about.
Mind you the diesel P filter may benefit from some of these oils but what will it do to the engine itself?
I now dont know whether I will risk it given the cost of a dpf (see post above)
N

[kaanage]

The engines having issues with TC-W3 are those running above 7000rpm for large portions of their duty cycle and they also depend on the 2 stroke oil for lubrication of the engine bottom end (crankshaft ball bearings + big end roller bearings) and top end (little end roller bearings + piston bore). None of this is relevant with our TDi engines.

I had the same concerns with castor oil but Chris Preen is confident that the higher burn temp of diesel engines vs 2-stroke petrol engines means that the 'bean' oil doesn't present issues for TDi's, either.

The germans (both in the Freelander thread and some other US threads I found) reckon that high grade 2-stroke oils promote more complete combustion than straight diesel so less soot (which is what leaves ash buildup in DPFs) is produced keeping the DPF cleaner over a longer lifetime.

Sorry about the JASO oil spec recommendations - I should have said JASO FB was OK except for engines with DPFs and that JC or above was preferable for use with those (or TC-W3)