Starting trouble

[Transporter]

Yeah, many things can bring the engine to the stop, especially the diesel engine. Check everything as gldgti suggested first, because you need to find out what stopped the engine as well.

Regarding the battery, the starter motor clicks but fail to turn with the engine; that could mean:

Battery doesn't have enough energy (capacity)
Startermotor draws excessive current (worn out bushes)
Solenoid on startermotor (as others suggested)
High resistance somewhere (corrosion, loose wire, bad contacts)
Seized or otherwise dammaged engine. (even lost timing as gldgti said will put strain on a weak battery that would normaly start the engine)

To eliminate battery/startermotor for good do the following.
(it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes)

Check the voltage drop on the battery posts, both positive and negative terminals with any cheap digital voltmeter (DVM), while you're starting check battery terminals voltage, if it goes too much bellow 8V you will have trouble to start it even if it would be cranking with the engine. If the voltage is above 10V than:

Select 2V scale and place + DVM probe on battery post and negative probe at battery terminal voltage drop should be no more than 0.3V (300mV). Check all connections - posts to cable - cable to earth point – to chassis.
Turn the high beams, if there is no voltage drop, than the main battery circuit is “ok”.

[JustMark]

My Gf said that it started alright and when she drove to school she said that the car wanted to take off quicker as it was warming up. Then it settled down to normal once it was warm. It started again when she drove it home with nothing unusual. Then she stopped off to pick something up and it wouldnt start again. The RACV came out and said it was holding 12v but couldnt started and and suggested the starter motor.

She got it towed home and i tried everything already mentioned. as well as.
5. tried to push start it. (wont do that again with a high compression engine.)
6. I also did what was suggested and put it into 4th and rocked about a foot with no luck.
7. hooked up my mercedes 300D battery.
8. checked the water and oil levels and they were fine with no trace of water in the il or vice verser.


I do believe that i could be due for a timing belt change. But i checked that to and it seems to be intact. Im really stuck for ideas. Is there anything else anyone can think of before i get it towed to a professional.

Thanks in advance.

mark

[Transporter]

Are you able to turn with engine when you put socket on engine pulley?
If yes replace the battery, don't hook the battery with cables it is not good enough because if the battery is faulty it would put the load on the new one. Remove it out of the car and use the battery from MB300D, if it starts MB it should start Golf. Just make sure your battery connections are OK.

[Jmac]

So i assume you have checked the earth cable???? Tried the jump lead between the batt and engine????? Havent read that , maybe missed it.
Jmac

[gldgti]

My Gf said that it started alright and when she drove to school she said that the car wanted to take off quicker as it was warming up. Then it settled down to normal once it was warm. It started again when she drove it home with nothing unusual. Then she stopped off to pick something up and it wouldnt start again. The RACV came out and said it was holding 12v but couldnt started and and suggested the starter motor.

She got it towed home and i tried everything already mentioned. as well as.
5. tried to push start it. (wont do that again with a high compression engine.)
6. I also did what was suggested and put it into 4th and rocked about a foot with no luck.
7. hooked up my mercedes 300D battery.
8. checked the water and oil levels and they were fine with no trace of water in the il or vice verser.


I do believe that i could be due for a timing belt change. But i checked that to and it seems to be intact. Im really stuck for ideas. Is there anything else anyone can think of before i get it towed to a professional.

Thanks in advance.

mark

mate, i have written you up a very comprehensive list of things to look for, and none of it too hard. if hte timing belt stuff looks ok, then check that you have the 12V to the INJECTOR PUMP solenoid. its at the back of the injector pump, just above where the fuel lines come out. its a single tab (earths though the engine). should be a single wire running to it. stich a voltmeter on there and check it reads 12V with key on. if not, thats your problem.

My Gf said that it started alright and when she drove to school she said that the car wanted to take off quicker as it was warming up. Then it settled down to normal once it was warm.

likewise - sounds as though the car has been showing intermittent power - as you described - which says to me air in hte fuel lines. At LEAST replace the line from the filter to the injector pump. if possible change it for some clear plastic line so you can see if air is being sucked into the pump. this can be had at bunnings for cheap. (PVC hose, 6mm).

[JustMark]

When i say it clicks it clicks once and engages the starter motor but it doesnt turn over at all. The engine was shut down and wouldnt start again.

9. when i say i hooked the merc battery up, i pulled it out of the merc and put it in the golf then put a jumper cable on it.
10. Transporter when i put it into forth and rocked it I watched the timing belt to see it it would move. Even though it was really hard to move the car it did turn over the engine so i dont think the pistons have seized in the bores. Is this the same result you wanted to see with turning over the engine at the crank pulley?
10. I tried what transporter said and turned on the high beams and had no voltage drop..
11. gldgti i ran a multimeter over the injector pump selenoid and it showed 12.5V with the key off. when i went to turn the ignition on it would drop to 1.1v.


GLDGTI i didnt take off the timing cover as i think that is a bit over my head and if it was broken/ mis adjusted i couldnt fix it myself anyway.

Unless you guys think it is the injector pump selenoid does anyone have a recomendation of where to take the the Golf where they would understand diesels. I am located in Aspendale gardens and i know of The VW place in Dandenong and thats it. Im open to suggestions.

Once again thank you all for your time and effort.

Mark

[Transporter]

9. why did you put the jumper cable on? Make sure the cables from the battery positive to starter motor and battery negative to chassis and the engine earth have good contact.
10. to be sure you could compare how does it feel to turn MB300d and Golf with the socket on the crankshaft, it should feel similar resistance despite mercs 5 cyl's. Rocking the car doesn't give you enough feel for that.
10. Lights should be on hi-beam and when you crank than you read the voltmeter to check the voltage drop. If you don't connect voltmeter, than perhaps watch the light, if it doesn't dim too much.

[silvershadow]

Given all the feedback so far, the most likely cause of the problem is worn bearings in the starter motor causing the armature to "pole" on the field windings - "poling" occurs when the worn bearings allow the armature to move under the influence of the magnetic field generated by the field windings when the starter is activated and lock onto the field windings located on the outer shell of the starter motor. The starter solenoid will click then nothing happens - the reported heating of the battery feed cable is consistent with this problem.

The quickest test for poling is to turn on the headlights, set them on high beam with an assistant watching then turn the ignition to start - if you hear a click and then lights go dim and stay dim while the key is in the start position, the problem is almost certain to be poling or a jammed bendix drive pinion.

An auto electrician can fix these problems at a reasonable cost with either a reconditioned exchange starter motor or repairing your unit.

[Transporter]

An auto electrician can fix these problems at a reasonable cost with either a reconditioned exchange starter motor or repairing your unit.

Yeah, unless there is already to much damage to the rotor, poles and winding. He said he replaced starter motor but he could be unlucky and had 2 of them faulty.

[gldgti]

11. gldgti i ran a multimeter over the injector pump selenoid and it showed 12.5V with the key off. when i went to turn the ignition on it would drop to 1.1v.

BINGO!

what you have described here is majorly wrong. for starters, the proper setup uses a voltage on/open solenoid - so with key on, it should be energised and it will click faintly. with key off there should be 0V there.

its possible (but unlikely) you have a marine engine injector pump stop solenoid in there, but it would be crazy to use that for the road. i would say you defiantely have some wiring issues. definately.
for a test, disconnect the wire going to the solenoid, and run a little wire yourself from the battery positive and touch it on top of the solenoid. if it does a little faint click when you energise it, its ok. likewise, test the starter solenoid wire while its disconnected for key ON power. there should be nothing there with key off.