to smoke or not to smoke

[Greg Roles]

My gives a nice plume when I give it some, but nothing like this.....http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=1fQ1cnpYHl4

I would love if I had a plume that big

pfffft....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBFJm...eature=related

Now that's a tractor!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q30xMkhlfVw&NR=1

[Buckets]

i love a good plume under hard acceleration (i always look in my mirror when i get up it for the soot hehe)

Yep, nothing better than giving a tailgater a taste of diesel!

[GoLfMan]

Yep, nothing better than giving a tailgater a taste of diesel!

AMEN to that, love sooting everywhere!

cant wait to get a free flowing exhaust, then the soot will come

[Buckets]

Can you tell I'm shattered about having no DPF

[gldgti]

well. i'm surprised there are so many people happy with a bit of smoke...

cool... maybe i shouldnt feel so bad.

actually, since i installed my new intercooler, i've been able to turn the boost up to about 18-20psi again, and the smoke is just about gone again (except for when i'm off boost

[gregozedobe]

I have been biting my tongue not to respond to some of the posts in this thread, but I can stand it no longer ! I know I am an old fuddy-duddy, but I am concerned about the lack of consideration for others (if not outright anti-social attitudes) revealed :

i love a good plume under hard acceleration (i always look in my mirror when i get up it for the soot hehe)

My gives a nice plume when I give it some, but nothing like this.....

I would love if I had a plume that big

I voted smoke 'em. I think the plume is hilarious. ...gunning it off the lights to see a cloud cover the 1.5 Lancer super ricemobile next to you is so funny. ... lmao.

Yep, nothing better than giving a tailgater a taste of diesel!

AMEN to that, love sooting everywhere!

cant wait to get a free flowing exhaust, then the soot will come

Imagine if you can, the thoughts of the other people around you when you are laying down that big black plume. Do you think they find it at all amusing ? Particularly if they have any kind of breathing difficulties or have a slightly "green" inclination (or just enjoy keeping their car clean). Try asking for the opinions of some of your "not car enthusiast" friends or acquaintences, the answers you get may surprise you.

If it happens to the wife of an influential politician do you think she might encourage her hubby to support some draconian anti-diesel legislation ? And yes, this legislation could be worded to directly control your beloved old "pre-emission" diesels too.

IMHO it is better to keep a lower profile (by not smoking excessively), in the hope that we can go on enjoying our diesels in the future without too much outside interference from government bodies, state pollution controllers, RTA etc.

[GoLfMan]

Imagine if you can, the thoughts of the other people around you when you are laying down that big black plume. Do you think they find it at all amusing ? Particularly if they have any kind of breathing difficulties or have a slightly "green" inclination (or just enjoy keeping their car clean). Try asking for the opinions of some of your "not car enthusiast" friends or acquaintences, the answers you get may surprise you.

If it happens to the wife of an influential politician do you think she might encourage her hubby to support some draconian anti-diesel legislation ? And yes, this legislation could be worded to directly control your beloved old "pre-emission" diesels too.

IMHO it is better to keep a lower profile (by not smoking excessively), in the hope that we can go on enjoying our diesels in the future without too much outside interference from government bodies, state pollution controllers, RTA etc.

if the greenies get offended at what is a natural diesel attribute, then they can also get offended at the amount of 6l V8's rolling around on the roads?

V8s produce more pollutants than our beloved diesels ( i also love a good V8!!!) and if the person has breathing difficulties they can just turn off outside air.

sooting once infront of someone isnt instantly going to make their car dirty, it might contribute to it, but then again so do alot of other factors... even us dieselers enjoy clean cars.... fancy that!

there is no way known that there would be anti diesel legislation passed, most of our logistics is carried out by trucks... diesel.... most car manufacturers now are bringing out diesels or have them as top selling models.... it just wouldnt make sense to make a draconian bill toward diesels and would backfire on the Govt' in a big way

your diesels soots out of the factory, its the way they are.... DPF's have trimmed it down but havent stopped it.

everyone has to tollerate everyone on the road, a bit of soot never harmed anyone!

[gregozedobe]

GolfMan, I must disagree strongly with your opinions (don't you just love a good, civilised, on-line debate by two passionate people with diametrically opposed points of view ? ).

I will attempt to show you my reasons, with no great hopes of persuading you to my point of view, but some hope of giving you an understanding why I ( and people with similar views) disagree with you.

Thank you for confirming my point : " I am concerned about the lack of consideration for others".

if the greenies get offended at what is a natural diesel attribute, then they can also get offended at the amount of 6l V8's rolling around on the roads?

V8s produce more pollutants than our beloved diesels ( i also love a good V8!!!)

( ah yes, debating technique #3, "Introduce an irrelevancy as justification")

Sorry, as the old saying goes, "two wrongs don't make a right". As I understood it we were discussing the large amounts of soot produced by some diesels, not other sources of pollution.

But to respond to your digression anyway, and show why it is different - These "6l V8's " almost certainly produce very little harmful emissions (unless their owners have been modifying them so they no longer meet the appropriate emisssions requirements). They certainly don't produce large quantities of visible pollution to draw attention to their prolifigate ways.

at what is a natural diesel attribute

(debating technique #9, "Slip in a modifier as a seemingly neutral phrase in another argument")

Excessive soot production is NOT a "natural diesel attribute". The amount of soot produced is an indicator that the motor is running "rich" (unable to get enough oxygen for complete combustion). In fact it shows the motor is not running as economically as it could be.

I believe that excessive soot during acceleration is due to three main factors:

1 "Performance tuning" of some kind,
2 Lack of maintenance work (eg injectors, injector pump),
3 Poor original design by the manufacturer (not very common these days).

and if the person has breathing difficulties they can just turn off outside air.

This statement is breath-takingly arrogant !!! I hope it was meant as a small piece of tongue-in-cheek throw-away humour. Otherwise do you seriously expect me to believe that your right to produce pollution is more important than someone else's right to breathe air that doesn't make them sick ?

To follow that argument further I suppose pedestrians, cyclists, sports car drivers and motorcyclists should all buy cars with filtering air recirculation systems, just so you can go around laying down "a good plume under hard acceleration" whenever the mood takes you ?

sooting once infront of someone isnt instantly going to make their car dirty, it might contribute to it, but then again so do a lot of other factors...

( debating technique #3 again)

But how many of those "other factors" are so immediately obvious and in your face, and can be specifically blamed on one obvious cause - the smoky diesel car just in front ?

there is no way known that there would be anti diesel legislation passed, most of our logistics is carried out by trucks... diesel.... most car manufacturers now are bringing out diesels or have them as top selling models.... it just wouldnt make sense to make a draconian bill toward diesels and would backfire on the Govt' in a big way

I didn't say anything about legislation that banned diesels. Much more likely are laws to require any diesel vehicle seen to be "smoking excessively" to get an on-the-spot fine and be subject a futher emission test before being allowed back on the road. There would of course be different limits for trucks than for cars (and most modern trucks are pretty good anyway). Legislation like this would be almost certain to get widespread public support.

your diesels soots out of the factory, its the way they are.... DPF's have trimmed it down but havent stopped it.

My TDI is exactly the way it came from the factory, and it produces near enough to no visible soot, let alone "a good plume under hard acceleration". So, sorry, DPFs HAVE stopped it as far as the general public's perceptions go.

Furthermore, I suspect that many of the non-DPF diesels that produce excessive soot are NOT operating the same as they were when they left the factory, ie they have been subject to some kind of "tuning" which has led to them producing more soot than they did as standard.

everyone has to tollerate everyone on the road,

( debating technique # 5, "Use of a 'motherhood' statement that everyone will agree with")

We don't tolerate dangerous speeding or dangerous over-taking or dangerous tail-gating, same as we don't tolerate excessively loud exhausts or unsafe cars on public roads. Why should we tolerate excessively smokey diesels just because a small minority have a personal liking for them.

Toleration is paired with Consideration, the same as Rights are paired with Obligations. Unfortunately many people like to claim only the first half of the pair.

If toleration is pushed too far it will at some point be withdawn (and remember, toleration can only be given to you by someone else, you cannot take it from someone just because you believe you are somehow entitled to it - that's how a lot of road rage incidents are started).

a bit of soot never harmed anyone!

I would absolutely love to see some links to some reputable, properly researched and peeer reviewed scientific studies with real medical content that even vaguely support this statement. The only ones I've seen link diesel soot with increased rates of some cancers.

If you really believed this, you should plumb the outlet of your exhaust into the cabin of your car. That way you could reap the full benefits of your "harmless" soot, and no one else would have anything to get annoyed about
(debating technique # 7a, "Take an argument to a ridiculous extreme to expose how wrong it is, with humour")

[mtj007]

I don't mind a little puff on take off but that is about it.

At least my "aggressive" driving style helps stop a buildup forming in my exhaust however it is a bit embarrassing when I get into my mum's Passat (which is driven nowhere near as hard) and punch it from the lights and leave the person behind me sitting in a black cloud. Once I had a little old lady behind me in her Mazda 2 when I was in the Passat and I punched it from the lights, as I looked into the mirror I saw her just sitting there in a cloud of smoke with the person behind beeping their horn at her.

I am sure other non-diesel people see the puffs/clouds of smoke and think that they are still filthy polluting cars.

Oh well, the fun of driving them makes up for it I guess although I can't believe I let myself get a Candy White diesel knowing how dirty the back of my mum's Candy White Passat looks after a week.

[Spoddy]

So if we want to reduce the soot under acceleration, how do we go about it without having to modify anything?

Is it simply servicing?
What about driving technique, like changing down to spool the turbo before enriching the fuel too much at lower revs?

With the DSG it is too easy to get lazy, as good as it is, it still relies on flooding the engine before it changes down and gets going.

When doing short trips (like my wife does) should it be in sports mode (after it warmed up) just so it runs in a better rev range?

Questions, questions, looking for some answers/opinions...