Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Interesting article about diesel (the fuel)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    3,178
    Users Country Flag

    Interesting article about diesel (the fuel)

    It's a US 2007 article (Chevron) but the fundamentals still apply over here
    http://www.chevronwithtechron.com/pr...ech_Review.pdf
    Resident grumpy old fart
    VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    408
    Major difference is that US fuel is horrible generally compared to ours. Low lubricity and low cetane diesels. Also low octane petrols. Their best "high performance" fuel is 95RON.

    Anyone interested in how bad the fuel is can read all about the HPFP failures in USA and NHTSA investigation ongoing.

    We are lucky to have a better quality of fuel here.
    2015 Polo Comfortline 6M + Driving Comfort Package
    2011/11 Yeti 103 TDI 6M + Columbus media centre/satnav
    (2008 MY09 Polo 9N3 TDI retired hurt hail damage)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bowral, NSW
    Posts
    1,706
    Users Country Flag
    Quote Originally Posted by bluey View Post
    Their best "high performance" fuel is 95RON.
    Interesting... I thought the "high performance" was RON97 and they measured slightly differently?

    I know their RON91 equivalent is RON87...
    2012 Octavia vRS TDI. Darkside big turbo, 3bar tune, other stuff. 200kW/650Nm.
    1990 Mk1 Cabrio. 1.9 IDI w/ 18PSI.
    1985 Mazda T3500 adventuremobile. 1973 Superbug. 1972 Volvo 144 in poo-brown.
    Not including hers...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,605
    In the US, gasoline pumps must be labelled by the fuel's anti-knock index (AKI), which is calculated using the average of the RON and MON, i.e. ( RON + MON ) / 2 = AKI.

    The three most common grades of gasoline in the US are:

    - Regular unleaded: AKI 87 (91 RON)
    - Midgrade unleaded: AKI 89 (93 RON)
    - Premium unleaded: AKI 91 (95 RON)

    Premium unleaded with a AKI of 93 (98 RON) is widely available in many states, but very rare on the west coast.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    3,178
    Users Country Flag Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by bluey View Post
    Major difference is that US fuel is horrible generally compared to ours. Low lubricity and low cetane diesels. Also low octane petrols. Their best "high performance" fuel is 95RON.
    Within the context of that linked document, those differences are very minor and the diesel one is mainly to do with lower additive packages added post distillation in the US (ie the same as BP Ultimate vs 'normal' diesel down here, allegedly).
    Resident grumpy old fart
    VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    3,178
    Users Country Flag Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_vert View Post
    In the US, gasoline pumps must be labelled by the fuel's anti-knock index (AKI), which is calculated using the average of the RON and MON, i.e. ( RON + MON ) / 2 = AKI.
    Yeah, that confused me the first time I went over there and hired a car - I was thinking "What sort of çrap are they running?" and later found that their Regular was pretty much the same as ours.
    Resident grumpy old fart
    VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,605
    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post
    Within the context of that linked document, those differences are very minor and the diesel one is mainly to do with lower additive packages added post distillation in the US (ie the same as BP Ultimate vs 'normal' diesel down here, allegedly).
    While it is normal for refiners to add fuel additives into their products, the problem is the fuel standard for diesel in the US allows for a higher wear scar of 520 microns in the HFRR lubricity test, as opposed to the more stringent limit of 460 microns for European and Australian fuel standards.

    Although it's a rather understated point in the document, major diesel fuel injection equipment (FIE) manufacturers have repeatedly expressed concern that:


    It is expected that the useful operating lifetime of any mechanical component
    will be adversely affected by fuel with a lubricity exceeding 460 microns.

    - FIE Common Position Statement, dated 2004, 2009 & 2012


    That's not to say all diesel fuel in the US will produce a wear scar larger than 460 microns, but there's no guarantee or requirement that it won't. It seems to me that it's an onerous and heavy burden on the consumer if one wants to ensure every fill up is with good fuel (as observed by posts made on the TDIClub forums).

    Having said that, a splash of biodiesel does wonders for lubricity when added to diesel, even just at 2%.


    Low cetane in diesel fuel affects driveability and emissions in different ways, but the issue of lubricity and equipment reliability is/was the big talking point.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    3,178
    Users Country Flag Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_vert View Post
    While it is normal for refiners to add fuel additives into their products, the problem is the fuel standard for diesel in the US allows for a higher wear scar of 520 microns in the HFRR lubricity test, as opposed to the more stringent limit of 460 microns for European and Australian fuel standards.
    Yes but it is the additives that lower the wear scar, not further refining of the base product (as discussed in the Spicer report from a few years back).

    The point is that the article does not greatly differ in how the crude oil ends up being refined for our diesels
    Resident grumpy old fart
    VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,605
    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post
    The point is that the article does not greatly differ in how the crude oil ends up being refined for our diesels
    Well, I admit I got mixed up in discussing the finished product as seen by the consumer - but I take your original point.

    I'd probably go as far as saying the refining process for petroleum diesel and the various complexities would be broadly similar across the developed world, but it's a very informative document nonetheless.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    3,178
    Users Country Flag Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_vert View Post
    I'd probably go as far as saying the refining process for petroleum diesel and the various complexities would be broadly similar across the developed world, but it's a very informative document nonetheless.
    Absolutely agree with you here and that is why I posted the link to the article. A petrol article that was sourced from the UK or Europe would be equally applicable to us. I guess it was the word major in bluey's post that I felt was unwarranted.
    Resident grumpy old fart
    VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
| |