Hydrogen Injection

[VW Convert]

It's all crap, I'm afraid - http://www.fuelsaving.info/hydrogen.htm for some basic details, but you really can't beat the laws of physics here. You are always going to use more energy electrolysing water to produce so called "Brown's Gas" (no, there's no such thing as HHO) than you will gain by burning it. No, it does not increase efficiency of fuel burn, or anything similar. To be frank, it's a con. Any anecdotes to the contrary are just that, anecdotes (the plural of anecdote is not data!) and are a classic example of confirmation bias.

Pump up your tires and use less right foot! Cheaper, easier, actually works.

That's a very interesting website, lots of things explained in terms that anybody can understand by someone who has experience and qualifications.

Cheers

George

[DSGMAn]

Me too!
Is your brother also injecting the O2 derived from the electrolysis of water? On-board splitting of H2O needs an energy source. Is this provided directly from the charging system? If so, what is its power consumption and how does this affect fuel consumption/performance? The reason I mentioned pressurised H2 stored in cylinders is that it can be generated externally by solar power thus being more sustainable.

I heard the draw is somewhere around 10amps - runs off the alternator. As soon as he turned the key on the ignition the cells started electrolysing.

[DSGMAn]

It's all crap, I'm afraid - http://www.fuelsaving.info/hydrogen.htm for some basic details, but you really can't beat the laws of physics here. You are always going to use more energy electrolysing water to produce so called "Brown's Gas" (no, there's no such thing as HHO) than you will gain by burning it. No, it does not increase efficiency of fuel burn, or anything similar. To be frank, it's a con. Any anecdotes to the contrary are just that, anecdotes (the plural of anecdote is not data!) and are a classic example of confirmation bias.

Pump up your tires and use less right foot! Cheaper, easier, actually works.

I don't think anyone is making claims of perpetual motion here.....but there are ways to increase overall efficiency - it's tried and proven through LPG injection also.

Free energy def not - but increased burn efficiency is a given. It's being widely used throughout Nth America in some trucking fleets http://www.chechfi.ca/product_ltseries.htm- I doubt these guys would plunk down 14k a pop for the truck units if there was not some kind of return. The reading of one website does not close the book on H2 Injection. As for the other website (in your 2nd post)- it looks like a full on scam....if people believe that crap, then they have problems . It doesn't really have any bearing on legit companies producing quality H2 Units.

[Greg Roles]

Well having recently watched "who killed the electric car" on dvd, it does seem strange that all the auto manufacturers have ditched the obviously workable electric concept for the "long way off" Hydrogen fuel cell idea.

Their angle was all about inclome from oil, and it would appear Hydrogen technology is a nice idea to stall things while the price of oil continues to rise.

A great watch, and one that makes me want to run bio diesel more than ever.

Hmm, Bio and LPG, now that's interesting...

[250 downunder]

Well having recently watched "who killed the electric car" on dvd, it does seem strange that all the auto manufacturers have ditched the obviously workable electric concept for the "long way off" Hydrogen fuel cell idea.

Their angle was all about inclome from oil, and it would appear Hydrogen technology is a nice idea to stall things while the price of oil continues to rise.

A great watch, and one that makes me want to run bio diesel more than ever.

Hmm, Bio and LPG, now that's interesting...

So what's stopping you? Go for it. You can come & spy on my plant and learn from my mistakes. I hate those oil companies so much since I started making Bio that I cry when I have to go and buy petrol for the mower! I think I will have to find a small diesel suitable for a mower.

[motk]

I don't think anyone is making claims of perpetual motion here.....but there are ways to increase overall efficiency - it's tried and proven through LPG injection also.

Free energy def not - but increased burn efficiency is a given. It's being widely used throughout Nth America in some trucking fleets http://www.chechfi.ca/product_ltseries.htm- I doubt these guys would plunk down 14k a pop for the truck units if there was not some kind of return. The reading of one website does not close the book on H2 Injection. As for the other website (in your 2nd post)- it looks like a full on scam....if people believe that crap, then they have problems . It doesn't really have any bearing on legit companies producing quality H2 Units.

LPG injection is fine, there's good evidence that it works to increase combustion efficiency. However, you're not using engine power to magically syphon that out of the aether as the HHO nuts proclaim.

Hydrogen gas may or may not be useful, but the claim stands, and the physics back it up - you cannot retrieve more energy from the electrolysis than you will use performing it. To claim otherwise is to start arguing with the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and to do that is to start wearing your underpants on your head and claim that Big Oil knows about Over-Unity devices, hahaha, but the illuminati keep it all hushed up, hee hee hee argle wargle bargle.

In case I'm being unclear let me state thus: There are no such thing as "legit H2 units". They cannot be anything but a scam, no matter how many fleet owners get suckered in by them.

Just say no to magical thinking. Demand hard science and hard data. Firepower should have been enough lesson for anyone.

EDIT: Clarifying a statement - also, please read the following from The Straight Dope for some further info.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...ake-browns-gas

[smithy010]

Hydrogen gas may or may not be useful, but the claim stands, and the physics back it up - you cannot retrieve more energy from the electrolysis than you will use performing it. To claim otherwise is to start arguing with the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and to do that is to start wearing your underpants on your head and claim that Big Oil knows about Over-Unity devices, hahaha, but the illuminati keep it all hushed up, hee hee hee argle wargle bargle.

[/URL]

It may well be a scam. I don't know whether it is or it isn't, but one thing is for sure, motk's argument is also flawed.

It is not arguing with the 2nd law of thermodynamics at all, if you are simply increasing the burn efficiency of the thermodynamic cycle.

Put it this way. Say, the 10 amps drawn from the alternator uses an extra 1% of engine power.
If the result of this 1% increase in fuel consumption, allows you to gain 10% better burn efficiency, then you gain 9%.

It just means you are emitting less waste energy (as heat, noise and vibration).

And a reminder, that i'm a sceptic too.

[Greg Roles]

So what's stopping you? Go for it. You can come & spy on my plant and learn from my mistakes. I hate those oil companies so much since I started making Bio that I cry when I have to go and buy petrol for the mower! I think I will have to find a small diesel suitable for a mower.

Mate I appreciate the offer, and I know it's my future. I did a degree in Chemistry afterall!
The only things that are stopping me is a lack of knowledge, and a brand new diesel that I can't do without to earn my income. I'm currently considering buying a Mark 1 Golf oiler, and using it as my test mule.

Also need to hook up my EGR, temp gauge etc to the Mk V, so if and when I start playing, I can keep an eye on everything. Seems like a fuel flow meter would be a good idea too, if the fuel starving issues I am learning about in newer Diesels is for real.

Again, appreciate the offer, and don't worry, I've already marked out the bio diesel shed spot on the side of my house

[250 downunder]

"EGR"? Or did you mean "EGT"?
Whilst on the subject of temperatures, I run an F250 on B100 and have noted a 100 - 150 degree drop in exhaust gas temperature whilst hauling 2.5 tonnes. Also running a Mk5 2l. Golf on 20% Bio with no problems to date.

[Ivo]

It really is an interesting topic. It would be great if these products actually worked. I'm just not going spend $1000's on system like this one if it does not work. http://www.h2fuel-save.net.au/cms/index.php


In the end, "big oil" will do everything it can to stop/stall us getting alternative fuel systems as they want to keep making billions from us......bastids!