DPF replacement...$4000!...Anybody know a good exhaust mod place in Melbourne?

[parso_rex]

Trucks? I take it your talking about Isuzus?

Funny thing is, I sell MAN trucks, which use EGR with a PM Kat for Euro4 Emissions.... They have been running around this wide brown land for the last 3 years, and they haven't clogged one yet.

The Isuzu's we sell out of our same dealership.... Well, its probably easier to list the trucks that haven't had DPD faults....

Maybe cos of the design of the MAN one is constantly regenerating, rather than than occasional re-gens?

Actually I made a bit of a mistake mentioning that as the trucks aren't using the DPF in the latest versions, what I meant was the way we modify things in the tuned or stock file is the same for both types of particulate removal we have to tell the ECU not to look for certain things and so on. The trucks we're doing atm are Volvo's FH-16's and they are using the Adblue method instead of a DPF . You can on some ECU's limit the amount of Adblue consumed or even turn it off all together. From the operators point of view it costs quite a bit if you into big kilometers.
Is Oz still only Euro 4 or is it now Euro 5 ? I'm a bit confused with the commercial stuff

[Greg Roles]

OK, well the first tune WITH dump pipe then...

Good to see there's a normal option for all those who just want their car to keep going as standard once the DPF inevitably clogs. It is indeed illegal though, but I bet the fine for a passenger car is less than $4700!

It's interesting that for the first year or so, I was getting an obvious forced regen every week or so. The car's idle would be up, and the EGT's on the guage would rise. Since learning to drive to the boost guage whilst watching RPM, not lugging the car around using the torque, and putting in a Provent and dumping that to exhaust, I just don't get forced regens anymore. I can honestly remember one in the last few months of driving, and I recalled at the time I had been lugging the car around, being lazy on the gears.

I think people can maximise their DPF lifespan by driving to suit, but yeah, the vast majority of motorists with no idea are all going to be hating their diesels in the next few years when they get the $5k dealer quote!

[Transporter]

I bet the fine for a passenger car is less than $4700!

Unless they take you to court for damaging environment. Which is probably unlikely.

[The_Hawk]

Changing this which effect emissions is a $10,000 EPA fine last time I checked. So removing a cat for example could cost you. Of course I think you would have to *REALLY* tick off someone to get to that point.

[parso_rex]

Changing this which effect emissions is a $10,000 EPA fine last time I checked. So removing a cat for example could cost you. Of course I think you would have to *REALLY* tick off someone to get to that point.

Exactly, I thought it was more than this in N.S.W myself. I've only heard on one person with an EVO getting fined for no cat though and he was warned twice before being caught for a 3rd time - moron !. I'm sure it was more than $10K. The thing is with a decent cat on a good system you don't lose much at all so why bother I still run one on all my cars and it makes virtually no difference with or without . I haven't dynoed the DPF' less cars yet though.
The same thing applies for a host of other mods and remaps they most likely won't pass and emissions/noise/engineering test truth be told, even some stock cars fail

[Greg Roles]

Thing is a DPF is not like a typical Cat. A Cat is like a bunch of drinking straws, in that it's a restriction, but still basically straight through. The DPF is a membrane of dead end channels, and the gas has to pass through the porous walls at 90 degrees, and it's fine enough to trap soot particles. Massive restriction. The guys with the DPF delete via Custom Code in the UK saw both power and economy gains without the restriction.





I understand the problem of particulates, but if you read the latest reports mainly from germany, the thinking is all DPF's do is hide the problem from sight, and make it a microscopic nightmare. Whereas before you'd think "yuck" and it adds up to make visable pollution, now it seems these microscopic soot particles released from DPF's can directly enter the bloodstream in the lungs, whereas before you'd just cough them back up. Early days, but we will see. A well metered tune may actually lower particulates over the stock tune, as the stock air \ fuel ratios are like a staircase, whereas the superchip one I've seen was a nice smooth curve. Certainly I'd want my DPf less car as low a polluter as possible, and with my Snow kit hopefully you won't need to add the typical "extra fuel" to keep EGT's under control. Extra fuel = soot.

Oxides of Nitrogen, the main pollutant from diesels over petrol cars comes from combustion temps, hence adding EGR back into the inlet charge, lowering Oxygen content, thus limiting the temps and thus NO. Whilst deleting my EGR is indeed illegal and would in itself lead to more NO, the efforts I've gone to with the inlet air, intercooler and water meth all add up to lowering inlet temps, to a point I'd be happy to have it compared with a stock EGR car. When it's finally tuned, again, I'd be looking to keep EGT's within standard levels, thus my NO isn't going to be any higher.

Illegal, but I'm able to sleep at night.

[gldgti]

dead right Greg - its what you cant see that does real damage. In reality, most of the diesel soot from vehicles falls to the ground or is trapped by moisture forming around it in the air. Anyway, I guess thats a whole other topic entirely.... Any date on when you have your car done?

I suppose i might aswell mention it here - but i reckon part of the issue with all the soot trapping measures is that it all stems from a demand for quick throttle response... if you can live with slower throttle response, you can tune the engine to run excess air all the time and be rid of soot entirely... if the sales person said to me "you can have 5l/100km and 103kW and fast throttle response, or 4.5l/100km and 120kW and slower throttle response" I know what i'd choose - but i'm definately not "most people".

[GoLfMan]

i love soot. Its one of the best parts of owning a diesel

[sh|tbmxrider]

Actually I made a bit of a mistake mentioning that as the trucks aren't using the DPF in the latest versions, what I meant was the way we modify things in the tuned or stock file is the same for both types of particulate removal we have to tell the ECU not to look for certain things and so on. The trucks we're doing atm are Volvo's FH-16's and they are using the Adblue method instead of a DPF . You can on some ECU's limit the amount of Adblue consumed or even turn it off all together. From the operators point of view it costs quite a bit if you into big kilometers.
Is Oz still only Euro 4 or is it now Euro 5 ? I'm a bit confused with the commercial stuff

Oooooh.

You may be handy....

Euro4 for Trucks & Buses came in Jan 1, 2008. We go to Euro5 on Jan 1 2010....

AdBlue can be a bit of a bastard.... Our Euro5 big stuff is going SCR, the fact we are losing fuel tank capacity (going from 1x580L + 1x450L = 1030L on Euro4 to 2x450L = 900L on Euro5 prime movers) is enough of a pain in the arse itself...

As it stands, its a bit of a varied bunch as to who is doing what with Euro5....

MAN: 250hp-340hp is Euro5 EGR with OXY-kats, 360hp-540hp is Euro5 SCR
Volvo: all SCR
Mercedes-Benz: all SCR
Scania: All HP avaliable in SCR, selected HP in EGR (max 480hp)
DAF: all SCR
Iveco: all SCR
UD: all SCR
Hino: not sure
Isuzu: DPF's and OXY-Cats depending on HP
Detroit Diesel: DPF
Cummins: DPF


Im just surprised that you can get into the ECU's... does that mean you could tweak speed limiters if it wasnt so wrong and illegal?

The Germans (MAN AG aka VW Trucks) tell us it is verboten to fiddle with the ECUs unless it is to put in PTO programs, etc...



ANYHEW! Back on topic...

Just say I end up buying the RS TDI common rail...

What are my options? Retune with DPF in place? delete DPF? Is EGR deletion nessacary (ive seen it being used on trucks for years and apart from EGR valves sticking shut occasionally, nowt problems...)

What sorta coin? and is there a 'performance' tune, and what gains would I expect?

[h100vw]

170 PPD 2.0 TDi Large-Bore DPF-OFF De-CAT Downpipe - JBS

This is the info on the delete pipe.

Gavin