diesel and Aus politics dont mix... apparently

[Golf Loon]

I think for the amount of oil i am using, Mr Howard can go and get F%^&*d.

Hoorah, well said

[hiho]

Good on you Ayden for starting this thread.

The way we use energy must change if we are to survive as a civilisation as well as advances in technology and use of renewable energy sources such as biodiesel. I cant wait for a carbon price signal to be introduced (carbon trading/credits/tax) so there is a true cost of fossil fuels passed onto the consumer. That is when BD and other renewables will have the price advantage that is inherent to them and they deserve. Low emission coal will also be very important if they can make it work. Maybe then we will use energy with respect.
Wont happen with our fearless (blind) leader at the helm

[brackie]

Obviously this is greatly simplified, because the methanol is not factored in, nor is the power to plant, harvest

As a guide, farmers generally work on the basis that it costs about half of the yield price to grow the crop. This of course doesn't include labour which is a considerable part of the real cost of producing the crop. If you like, this is the farmer's "wages".
So, by the time you include:

* seed
* fertiliser
* irrigation
* machinery costs (maintenance, interest etc)
* diesel
* interest on the land used
* wages of farm hands (you just can't do it all yourself!)
* pesticides (believe me...brassicas attract them all and without pesticides you just wouldn't have a crop)
* tax

Also remember that when the crop is cropped the ground has to be reworked (diesel, implements etc, etc)

****** And of course... you can only plant the brassica every 4 to 5 years so if you have say 100ha of arable land only 25 can be under brassicas in any year.*******

You guys getting my drift?? When we say that if all of the arable land in Oz was used to cultivate oil seed we're really only talking about 1/5 to 1/4... and... the farmer has to make a profit or he starves.

[Seano]

I'm with Brackie on this one especially since he's though of everything in my argument except the one other thing that we don't have enough of at the moment.....water.

Simply because of production constraints and demand, biodiesel will only ever be a portion of the answer.

Diesel in itself is not the only answer either given that it is the most polluting of the common automotive fuels in terms of particulates...to control particulates adds significantly to the cost of the vehicle in both emmision control tech and engine management tech.

The 'answer' (such as it is) is to source our automotive energy supplies from the widest range of fossil and sustainable sources that we can find....natural gas, LPG, methane, hydrogen, fossil oil, ethanol, plant oils, electricity etc etc etc....and to use only what we need rather than whatever we'd like.....

Wedding ourselves to one fuel over another becuase we percieve it to be better when all in all it is just another alternative is just as blind as our gargantuan (and futile) desire for fossil oil.

Incidentally, when I can, I've taken to using the biodiesel blend produced by South Australian Farmers Fuel http://www.farmersfuel.com.au/PremiumDiesel.html It is quite nice stuff. The Transporter enjoys the drink and seems to sip very nicely at it too.
FF are also moving towards the wide distribution of biodiesel too http://www.farmersfuel.com.au/Biodiesel.html

[Edison]

> > energy sources will need to be de-centralised and become area specific if renewables are to be successful

The precise OPPOSITE of capitalism. The precise OPPOSITE of the oil companies whole charter of ideals. An oil company is one person who says the hole in the ground is theirs and uses it as gods wallet. With unimaginable profits of course they will work against all alternatives. They might be greedy they are probably immoral, but one thing you can be absolutley certian of, they aren't stupid. pick up a 100 year old newspaper and read the letters to the editor, they are word for word precisely what you are saying here. mask the dates on the paper, and you cannot pick which 'oil crisis' it was. it's an old game with the same players and the same gameplay the only thing new is you and your generation.

> if we plan to exist for the next thousand years we need to

Will never happen. 6 billion, in fact anything billion for humans is a plague, and nature is going to do what it always does with all plagues. Correct it. We will be wiped out by nature itself, and it won't take 1000 years. I absolutley doubt it would take 100. I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if I see it happen on the news myself.(I hope to be in the wilderness at the time)

Incidentally, when I can, I've taken to using the biodiesel blend produced by South Australian Farmers Fuel http://www.farmersfuel.com.au/PremiumDiesel.html

Want to borrow my crystal ball? in a few years the oil companies will drop the price of pump diesel to put this and all the companies like it out of business.

Obviously this is greatly simplified, because the methanol is not factored in, nor is the power to plant, harvest, and press the canola, but it's a pretty cool thought!

Canola doesn't need processing, my Mk1 Diesel has a tank full of the stuff and so far so good, driven like 20 times getting the blueslip arranged and no problems, same as diesel. I am making parts so it can use waste oil.

[smithy010]

Yeah i know, and when i get the biodiesel going i will also install a SVO system, but it's really only good for long runs- you have to heat it. right?

[gldgti]

WOW WEEE!!!

now i'm happy. all you guys are very aware and this makes me very happy.

now, what to do? tell your friends!!! we need to educate on this stuff. i dont want to sound naiive, but i dont want to be wiped out in the next 100 years. I'm pretty sure im a nice guy. i have a great girlfriend and im pretty conciensious..... so how do we go about spreading the word to start some kind of change in the minds of the people that can really make some kind of difference?

i realise theres a lot of big questions there, but i need more people than just me to think aobut htis stuff seriously.

Next week i'm going to the seminar about the hybrid vehicle "evolution". i hope to educate the spokesperson at some point about my own awareness of the petro-hybrid cars futility. maybe he can pass that on... either way its a starting point for me.

lets keep this ball rolling guys!

[Seano]

Next week i'm going to the seminar about the hybrid vehicle "evolution". i hope to educate the spokesperson at some point about my own awareness of the petro-hybrid cars futility. maybe he can pass that on... either way its a starting point for me.

Careful. Petrol hybrid cars are not futile. They are very effective at what they do and are part of the solution. BUT they are only PART (despite what the advertising and hype might say otherwise). There are other possibles....and the diesel option is one........but why does an hybrid car have to use petrol or diesel? Why not ethanol, LPG, CNG etc.

The major problem with the current hybrids is not the technology but the marketing. The marketing imperative says that the product must be sold and it must be positioned such that it excludes all others rather than being inclusive of other transport options (eg. 'petrol hybrid is better than diesel and both are better than a bicycle' which we all know is crap but it can be marketed in a way that says otherwise). The solution is a diversity of options not the one size fits all approach that we currently use to satisfy our energy hunger.

[gldgti]

perhaps futile was too strong an expression...

put it this way - its a gimmick. petrol hybrid cars are no more efficient than my car - less so mostly.

you can get a fiat punto turbo diesel now, with peugot HDI diesel engine that'll get 3.8l/100km.... they're cheap too, much cheaper than a prius or civic hybrid.

they really arent worht the effort, on a grand scale, apart from possible convincing some people to convert from their stupid commodores.

[gldgti]

also...

im fully agreed on the need for diversity in how we use our energy..... but im also pretty against encouraging technologies like petrol hybrid, CNG etc because this is still fossil fuelled - theres no difference. just like using an electric car when you burn coal to make the electricity.