Clunking noise! Dual mass flywheel dying!!

[Mkv TDI]

Hi Guys,
My 05 Mkv TDI has now done 106000km. I'm doing around 26000km per annum and have had the car for just over 2 years. She's developed a clunking sound when she first fires up (clutch in or out) and also when you first set off under acceleration (2-3 clunks) and under engine braking.
I've had her inspected thoroughly twice by the same mechanic, once when it first started and again last week (as it has worsened considerably). In both instances we haven't yet been able to locate the source of the noise and vibration.
Things that we've discounted are;
CV Joints
Gearbox mountings
Engine mountings
Suspension bushes
Front main drive pulley

All seem to check out ok.

As the clunk often occurs on start up, under acceleration and engine braking we're now thinking it might be something to do with the dual mass flywheel. My mechanic has removed the starter motor to gain access to the DMF and noticed that there is 6-7cm of play between the front plate of the DMF and the rear this means that whilst the rear plate remains fixed to the motor the front plate will rotate 6-7cm before taking up this slack and locking up with the rear plate. My internet research has revealed that the amount of play should be 0-1cm! I also learnt that DMF's are considered a weak point on Golfs (particularly 2005-2007 models) and there have been many instances world wide of DMF failure in both manuals and DSG's often resulting in holes through bell housings, DSG's and in at least one instance the DMF seized the DSG which in turn caused significant damage to the engine. In these instances both the engine and DSG had to be replaced.
There has been much talk of recalls including one on TDIclub.com referring to the 'Australian recall'.
Does anyone here know of an Aussie recall for Golf dual mass flywheels?
Also does anyone with mechanical knowledge of such things think that 6-7cm of rotational play between the front and rear plates of the DMF acceptable?

Any information would be much appreciated.

[Transporter]

Hmm, 6-7 cm rotation free play is probably too much.
Anyway for more ways how to test DMF look in my thread:
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newf...55&postcount=7
Good luck mate and let us know when you get it repaired.

[v.w.dave]

Hey mate it should only have at max 2 cm before the inner spring takes up the slack when rotating the flywheel. WHen they do come completely apart the spring shatters into hundereds of little parts of the spring. If you have over 2 cm then yes its dead.
I have been working for Volkswagen on and off for coming on 11 years as a mechanic, shop foreman, service manager, trainer........ And honestly in all mytime I have only replaced 3 DMF and have seen a further 5 or 6 fail. I have never heard of them as being refured to as the weak point. Infact the 3 that I replaced ALL of them where due to driver abuse. One of them was because the guy would tow a over sized trailer full or newspapers along with load the back up with over a ton of paper 3 times a week and drive over 200ks. It took him 2 years to brake his DMF.
I know back in the states when the PD TDI was first on the road back around 2003 they were replacing a bunch of DMF due to wrong diagnoses. The fuel filters were getting clogged causing jerking and other running problems and they replaced the DMF thinking it was the cause.
Mate my apinion take it to a dealer not just some mechanic that thinks its moving 6cm. They don't move that much even when they are broken. The spring snaps long before it gets to that point. They tend to get to about 3cm then they lock in that possition and will not move or they brake. If you were to remove the gearbox (on your car it take a good VW Tech less then 30 mins to have it on the ground) you will see strate away if it is buggered. If when you take the box off the 6 m12 bolts arn't within a few mm of lining up with there correct holes its f@#ked.

[Mkv TDI]

Hi Dave, thanks for the reply. Since my last post I've discovered that there was a dual mass flywheel recall on my car and VW has confirmed that mine has been done. I've even discovered a sticker quoting the recall number where the driver's door top hinge connects to the body.
VW Aus. were very secretive about why the DMF was replaced, they wouldn't state why only confirming that mine had been done.
If the DMF's aren't a weak point why would they recall and replace DMF's in cars that were less than a year old and why is this 2nd DMF failing after approx. 80,000kms?

[Transporter]

Hi Dave, thanks for the reply. Since my last post I've discovered that there was a dual mass flywheel recall on my car and VW has confirmed that mine has been done. I've even discovered a sticker quoting the recall number where the driver's door top hinge connects to the body.
VW Aus. were very secretive about why the DMF was replaced, they wouldn't state why only confirming that mine had been done.
If the DMF's aren't a weak point why would they recall and replace DMF's in cars that were less than a year old and why is this 2nd DMF failing after approx. 80,000kms?

I agree with you IMO, DMF's are weak point and 80,000km is about right what some drivers get due to theirs driving habits. Quick take off's and under revving the engine are the main causes why DMF fails. However there are some drivers who get 200,000km from the DMF.

[Mkv TDI]

There will be people who no doubt get even more than 200,000kms from their DMF's. I would suggest that the greater majority of TDI buyers are still more mature people who are buying the car for it's economy, solid build, reputation and refinements that you get in a compact smart looking car for a reasonable price. They are not buying it for it's incredible torque and magnificent acceleration between gears. They will nearly all buy a DSG and won't do fast take offs or even full throttle acceleration between gears, their point of view being that you don't buy a car capable of phenominal economy to then accelerate hard and waste fuel! Why would you do that? You drive it very sedately to see how low you can get the average fuel consumption per trip, even in the metro area, can they get to work in peak hour achieving less than 5.5 lt/100km? Can they do a country run and get less than 4.5 lt/100km?
Wheras, I bought the car because it has great economy and great performance, I love the torque and acceleration and purposefully chose the 6spd manual over the dsg. I'm no kid (48yoa) but I enjoy using the torque of the TDI, I don't thrash it, I would never do burnouts and rarely get wheelspin (although with that much torque in a manual occasionally you get some slippage before the slip control kicks in). Ninety percent of my driving would be done at part throttle acceleration typically changing gears at around 2200-2300rpm, the other 10% would be full throttle acceleration but only once the car is rolling. I rarely do full throttle jumps from the lights.
For someone like me 80,000km is probably all I'm going to get out of a DMF and quite frankly I'm still bitterly dissapointed as I believe these cars should be a lot stronger than this and you shouldn't have to spend the kind of money that I will have to spend to fix it every 80,000km. I'm thinking about trading it on a GTI thinking that as the GTI is the 'performance' Golf surely it's components would be built to withstand 'spirited' driving? Although what's the bet they still use the same duall mass flywheel? Does anyone know?
Does anyone who's had say a MKiv or MKv GTI who's done over 100,000km of spirited driving have an opinion on how durable and strong their car is, or do they also break down fairly regularly.

I know I shouldn't say this on a VW forum, but I also own a twin turbo Mkiv Toyota Supra that is 16.5 years old. I bought it 2nd hand about 7 years ago and it's now got about 170,000km on the clock (that's asuming the clock wasn't wound back when it came out from Japan which is quite common with these cars). I've done about 100,000km in the car myself in about 4yrs as my daily driver before I bought the Golf. I've modified it with a 3" mandrel bent exhaust plus extra boost and with the standard turbos and totally standard engine she's now putting out about 330kw. I drove it daily with this sort of horsepower for more than 4 years and did not baby it in any way whatsoever including at least a couple of visits to compete at the local streetcar drags at the Quit Motorplex each year. 16.5 years old and regularly flogged and nothing ever breaks! Now that's a performance car, over engineered to withstand whatever you can throw at it. No forged internals, no rebuilt trannies, no heavy duty clutches, all factory standard apart from extra boost and a free flowing exhaust.

I don't expect this level of performance from my TDI or even from a GTI, but 80,000km out of a dual mass flywheel is quite frankly, pathetic.

End of rant - sorry