B20 & B100

[85Fuego]

Greetings to all.

My name is David and this is my first post on your forum. My wife and i have had a MkV 2L TDI DSG for 18 months now and it goes quite well.

The fuel cap says 'not for biodiesel'. Before I contact VW Australia about what the reasons are, was wondering if members of this forum had any experience with 'commercial biodiesel' blends.

I remember reading somewhere that biodiesel may attack hoses etc? Any practical experience with that or is it scaremongering by car manufacturers/oil giants to keep us buying fossil fuels?

With the new generation diesel blends B2? and B20 available, what harm is to be expected from using them? I am aware that biodiesel has a greater cleaning effect, and that the fuel filter will need to be replaced earlier but what else. I can live with filter changes but not mechanical problems!

Thanks in advance,

David.

[mikinoz]

Welcome firstly!

And there is going to be lots of opinion from people - but there is some information that has been discussed here!

[phaeton]

Welcome to VWwA David

DutchAussie (Arie) has some biodiesel experience he should be able to help you.

I think VGA's Official line is No to Biodiesel as it hasn't been tested here yet and homemade quality is unknown so VGA don't want to risk it.

Also you should know some Diesel fuel has B10 I think as the government approve it, so that should be ok.

[85Fuego]

Thanks for the replies guys.

This was the official responce:

Dear Mr XX

Thank you for contacting us through the Volkswagen Australia Website.

In regards to your email, Volkswagen does not recommend running their vehicles on biodiesel.

European Vehicles are specifically ordered from the Volkswagen Factory for the use of Biodiesel fuels. These vehicles are not available to Australia as our Biodiesel fuel quality differs from European fuels. Damage can occur to rubber hoses, seals and other components and therefore are unable to guarantee the longevity of any affected components.

Volkswagen understands our customers are enviromentally and/or financially conscious and are working on a satisfactory outcome as interest increases for this fuel.

I must advise that if it was to be found that any part has failed from the use of biodiesel it would not be covered by your vehicle warranty.

Kind Regards,

Volkswagen Customer Assistance.

www.volkswagen.com.au

02 9273 2725

A fairly lame reply given that i asked for some idea of what modifications were needed to run biodiesel. Will chase up some more and post answers

Regards

David

[brackie]

I'm a bit reluctant to get into this discussion because it's a highly opinionated subject and really, nobody has the answer.

However:
Yes, biodiesel is a powerful cleaner and will definitely scour out anything loose, corroded or perished in your fuel system.
No, if your car is new(ish) then there's no problem as none of the areas described above are relevant.
Yes, VW and other manufacturers say that the Euro-compliant diesels are designed to use BD while those that are exported to Oz aren't. What exactly they do to make them compliant is unknown to me
Commercial BD in Oz has to comply to our standards (there are 2 guys on this forum who are a full bottle on this...maybe they can contribute).
BD smells and you can't mistake it. If you were to take you car to be fixed under warranty Blind Freddy would know that you've been running on BD.
Unless you have a properly engineered, 100% safe manufacturing process and you have efficient filtration you're putting your injection system at risk running on home made BD.
Like brake fluid, BD is to a small extent hygroscopic (it absorbs water) so a water dropper may help but cannot remove all of the water. Water is the worst enemy of injection pumps and injectors. It's a good idea to install a dropper like below.



I've run some of my diesels (but not my TDI) on virgin canola with success. A few years ago I bought a Pug 505 from the mainland that had been running on home made BD for a couple of years. The fuel system was a mess (below is a pic of the filter and it's contents when I first changed it. I had to do this frequently!) And the fuel tank had to be replaced because the water in the fuel had eaten through it. I also had to replace some of the steel and rubber fuel lines.



So I'm not putting BD down, we all should be using it, however it needs to be made and stored properly and everyone should be aware of the potential problems of using it in an old car.

[iain]

Have a look at the biofuels forum. There are people there running various new VW's (and many others cars) on bio from commercial sources. I'm not sure where you are but you can look at the "biodiesel finder" on this site which will direct you to places to buy it all over Aus.

While I'm not an authority on biodiesel, it seems that newer cars should deal with it fine provided its not really cold and the bio is good quality. Especially if it is only B20. However, any blend above that is when the cleaning of the tank, extra filtration and warming in cold climates becomes an issue.

I'd recommend anyone interested in bio look at this forum and read up on peoples experiences with it. There seems to be much misinformation when it comes to its use in Aus and real world examples described on the forum are more useful than the stuff trotted out by car manufacturers.

Cheers, iain.

[Edison]

The fuel cap says 'not for biodiesel'.
...is it scaremongering by car manufacturers/oil giants to keep us buying fossil fuels?

Hi David, you haven't mentioned what might be the reason for using BD ? is it with a view to economy or for moral reasons ?
If you have a source of BD cheaper than petroD then go for it, because you'll save more than any repair can cost.. There are plenty of stupid myths people believe that oil companies start and maintain that simply use more oil with no benefit whatsoever to the end user. turning your engine off at the lights, headlights on in the daytime, warming the car up for more than 30 seconds in the morning and complete paranoia about anything blood-free (not from iraq, like bd) are just some.

I would be astounded if they went to the trouble of making and using the engine seals from two different materials one for europe and one for australia, when it's cheaper and easier to just stick the same thing in every car because just the suggestion alone will have the same effect on the customer.

[DutchAussie]

Welcome to VWwA David

DutchAussie (Arie) has some biodiesel experience he should be able to help you.

I think VGA's Official line is No to Biodiesel as it hasn't been tested here yet and homemade quality is unknown so VGA don't want to risk it.

Also you should know some Diesel fuel has B10 I think as the government approve it, so that should be ok.

David,

come and visit my Website and Australian VW Caddy Forum or send me a Private email about Biodiesel and the VW 1.9 L TDI Engine performance.

[DutchAussie]

So I'm not putting BD down, we all should be using it, however it needs to be made and stored properly and everyone should be aware of the potential problems of using it in an old car.

Brackie,

thanks for your comments and pictures.
I am very interested in the filter and water separator in your picture.
Are they on your car?
If so could we have some details, e.g: make and number.

Regards,

Arie

[cetane]

G'day, mate.

Brackie doesn't post here any more however I may be able to help.
The filter/water dropper fitted to the Mk1 Golf diesel was OK but had three disadvantages:
1. it had a small capacity
2. there was no "glass" to enable you to see any water present
3. it was expensive.....
however as long as you are a regular under the bonnet it took only a few seconds to drain any water out of it.

The filter arrangement in the pic is a CAV and could be done by using the filter/dropper from a Pug 504 or 505 and an extra filter from just about any industrial application. A good place to look would be a tractor or industrial machinery wrecker. All of my (3) tractors have dual filters of exactly this type. The filter elements are very cheap and it's a breeze to change them.

If you intend running on canola or b100 then it's essential to have an efficient arrangement and to change filters often especially in the first few months of operation when the bio is "scouring" the system. A mesh prefilter to take out any big bits first is also useful. Mercs have these. Another thing not to neglect is if you are using home made bio and have a steel tank you should drop any water out of it regularly.