Adding 2 stroke oil to fuel - Interesting reading!!

[benno]

F'ing great find, I'm excited about the idea. Bit of research needed, as indeed oil ash clogs that damn DPF, but as soon as I can find a low ash 2 stroke mix, it's in.

Keep us posted with what you find mate.

YF in that forum made a post with some specs of oil that are suited. I'm going to poke around at the servo tomorrow when I fill up and see what they've got.
(if I'm allowed out that is - stuck in bloody quarantine for the past two days as I've got 'flu-like symptoms' and had contact with someone who tested positive for H1N1...)

[benno]

Im keen to try this!
will get some into the next fill up (or maybe even tonight!!!!)
should I get just the garden variety stuff thats down at the petrol station?

Mate read the thread and see what YF recommends, she quotes a bunch of oil specs somewhere....

[sparkie]

Dear Peeps, there a lot of mis-information on the internet, I'm sure you agree, and here is some more. I am not a petro-chemical engineer, but I do know a lot about biodiesel. YF states that the reason to add 2-stroke to modern diesel is to compensate for the lack of sulphur, which is a lubricant, in the fuel , thus adding 2-stroke compensates for the REDUCED lubrosity (sp?) of modern diesel due to there being more biodiesel in the fuel. This is totally incorrect, biodiesel has MUCH better lubricating properties than petro-diesel, there are plenty of references to this online. The reason pump manufacturers are coating linings with teflon is because biodiesel is a great solvent and can attack certain plastics and metals, again there are lists of what plastics are unstable with BD. 2-stroke is a highly polluting way of feeding an internal combustion engine, that is why Eastern Germany has got rid of them all, and it is why TATA are trying to manufacture a cheap car in India. You are burning a heavier substance in terms of the refraction of crude oil, so it tends to fall quickly as it cools down and so it sticks around in the streets and in the air. Research suggests that 2-stroke fuel is 40 yes 40 times more polluting than 4-stroke. In many parts of Scandinavia foresters are not allowed to use certain oils in their 2-stroke chainsaws because of the pollution, the oils they use are not available over here as far as I know. I would also reckon 2-stroke would cause havoc with sensors and DPFs. Ironically if you want to overcome the comparative 'dryness' of modern diesel, add bio-diesel (which is often packaged as an injector cleaner anyway), but be aware of its chemical (not lubricating) properties.

[Transporter]

Very interesting find.
It got me thinking about it and at the same time I put myself a question.
There are chemists and scientists that design the diesel fuel additives; why they don't use 2stroke oil in their products?

Because, it can't replace a good diesel fuel additive that also disperses water, prevents bacteria growth. The diesel fuel additive is proper lubricant for complete diesel fuel system and it is designed to burn in combustion with diesel fuel.
The 2stroke oil is designed to lubricate 2stroke petrol engine and burn in combustion with petrol.

So, I’m not sure about 2stroke oil in diesel fuel.
You most likely won’t do any damage by just trying it once, but I'm not sure about a long-term impact on the fuel system components if you use it all the time. Especially if you have the DPF.

The risk is to grate: very little to gain and too much to lose.

[benno]

Dear Peeps, there a lot of mis-information on the internet, I'm sure you agree, and here is some more. I am not a petro-chemical engineer, but I do know a lot about biodiesel. YF states that the reason to add 2-stroke to modern diesel is to compensate for the lack of sulphur, which is a lubricant, in the fuel , thus adding 2-stroke compensates for the REDUCED lubrosity (sp?) of modern diesel due to there being more biodiesel in the fuel. This is totally incorrect, biodiesel has MUCH better lubricating properties than petro-diesel, there are plenty of references to this online. The reason pump manufacturers are coating linings with teflon is because biodiesel is a great solvent and can attack certain plastics and metals, again there are lists of what plastics are unstable with BD. 2-stroke is a highly polluting way of feeding an internal combustion engine, that is why Eastern Germany has got rid of them all, and it is why TATA are trying to manufacture a cheap car in India. You are burning a heavier substance in terms of the refraction of crude oil, so it tends to fall quickly as it cools down and so it sticks around in the streets and in the air. Research suggests that 2-stroke fuel is 40 yes 40 times more polluting than 4-stroke. In many parts of Scandinavia foresters are not allowed to use certain oils in their 2-stroke chainsaws because of the pollution, the oils they use are not available over here as far as I know. I would also reckon 2-stroke would cause havoc with sensors and DPFs. Ironically if you want to overcome the comparative 'dryness' of modern diesel, add bio-diesel (which is often packaged as an injector cleaner anyway), but be aware of its chemical (not lubricating) properties.

Sulphur content has nothing to do with biodiesel content. YF is recommending the addition of 2 stroke oil regardless of biodiesel content. She recommends adding oil not just for it's lubricating properties but also because it results in LESS soot in the exhaust, and hence cleaner and better performing turbo.

Remember, it's being added in MUCH lower quantities than a typical two stroke petrol engine, and it's being added to a diesel engine with a very different combustion process.

[benno]

Very interesting find.
It got me thinking about it and at the same time I put myself a question.
There are chemists and scientists that design the diesel fuel additives; why they don't use 2stroke oil in their products?

Good point, and something I was thinking myself, but how do you know they don't? One poster in that thread I linked to claimed that a Redex diesel additive was mostly two stroke oil. It's certainly not inconceivable that they'd package up some two stroke oil with a bit of water dispersant in it and sell it at a great profit

[brad]

2-stroke is a highly polluting way of feeding an internal combustion engine, that is why Eastern Germany has got rid of them all, and it is why TATA are trying to manufacture a cheap car in India.

But the old Eastern Block Trabants & the dungers in India are all running old fasioned, low tech 2-strokes on a 20:1 mixture. Modern direct injection 2-stroke technology as used in outboard engines, snowmobiles & motorscooters is far more benign.

Also Ms YF is saying 200:1 in diesel which is 275ml of 2 stroke to a full 55L Golf fuel tank. Given that most people don't run their tank to completly empty, I'd think a 200ml shot at every fill would be about right.

You are burning a heavier substance in terms of the refraction of crude oil, so it tends to fall quickly as it cools down and so it sticks around in the streets and in the air. Research suggests that 2-stroke fuel is 40 yes 40 times more polluting than 4-stroke.

But how does 2-stroke compare to diesel?
Also, does it depend on the oil:fuel ratio? I run my brushcutter at 50:1 because I use Stihl 2 stroke oil.

I know it isn't a diesel, but I often used to add a litre of ATF to my petrol to act as a detergent agent, upper cylinder lubricant & decarboniser. Redex for petrol was the same base - ATF.

[brad]

YF's observations about the cleanliness of turbos, etc, makes me idly ponder if adding maybe a 1:500 or 1:1000 mix into the GTI's fuel would keep the air inlets cleaner - they do gather plenty of oil and clog the insides of head ports much faster than a port injected engine.

Sorry for slightly OT.

How would a cleaner in the fuel keep the air inlets (I assume you mean the inlet manifold) clean if the fuel is direct-injected into the combustion chamber?


I'm sure I've misunderstood or am missing something.

[gerhard]

Sorry for slightly OT.

How would a cleaner in the fuel keep the air inlets (I assume you mean the inlet manifold) clean if the fuel is direct-injected into the combustion chamber?


I'm sure I've misunderstood or am missing something.

Nah, I was just idly pondering and clearly it is a nonsense thought

It's oil blowby that pollutes the inlets, not fuel blowby

Many of the naysayers above might like to think about why MB would use this technique and find it rewarding, when they say things like "I'm not an engineer, but......" and refute the findings of engineers.

[sparkie]

Het Gerhard, I'm a naysayer, because sooo much of what goes on in the world, and even more in the car industry is bxxxxxit. MB did this because they could guarantee the quality of the diesel they were using on a reliability run, and as the original bloggers wrote how embarrassing would it have been if the cars had failed due to poor diesel bought locally. I donlt have to be an engineer to know that the diesel I buy has often been mixed with additives by unscrupulous station owners, nor that the underground fuel tanks are not completely water-free (condensation on the inside of the tanks at night), finally many of these engineers are researching engines in a lab with highly controlled environments - which do not translate to real-world situations - so I say roll on the naysayers, after all, the world is flat and te antarctic ice pack has increased by 100,000 square kilometres in the last ten years - but don't quote me I'm no climatologist!