Adding 2 stroke oil to fuel - Interesting reading!!

[twincab]

You add oil first so the fuel going into the tank mixers with the oil. If you add it after there is a good chance it won't mix properly.

cheers Pete

[kaanage]

Getting the 2-stroke oil to mix well would be my concern with adding AFTER filling. While non-vegetable (eg castor) 2-stroke oil is fully miscible with diesel, it could take a long time for the 2-stroke oil to mix well without agitation or stirring, especially if the 2-stroke oil has a higher specific gravity than the diesel (which I think is likely).

What I'm thinking of doing is syphoning out about 5l (or more if I can find a larger fuel container) from my freshly filled tank and mixing 225 ml of 2-stroke oil with that and then pouring the resulting mix back into my tank.

[gerhard]

I bought a bottle of Castrol 2T yesterday and I intend using it. My Golf doesn't get used much, last fill up was a couple of weeks ago, time before was 4 months ago.

While it is best to put the oil in THEN fill up, I didn't see anything that said you can't add the 2T oil AFTER fill up.

Any comments/advice?

Maris

Best to add the 2T first, then fill up the tank.

In your case I would also be worried about algae in the tank, and I would be adding a treatment aimed at killing any growth.

Cleanpower or FTC decarboniser from Costeffective.com.au would be my choice for that.

[WEDEL.1]

Thanks for the quick replies.

Twincab - I'll be parient & wait until the next fill up in a few weeks when we head over to WA for the Bug-In.

Gerhand - I'll buy a bottle of something to make sure I don't have any unwanted passengers ASAP.

Maris

[kaanage]

But the thread that linked to explicitly stated that using very low ash 2 stroke oil would not be detrimental to the DPF since these oils are specifically designed to burn very cleanly with lower ash content than most diesel stock.

I know that the 2 stroke oils we used, after we switched to using unleaded fuels, left the pistons and cylinder heads so clean that there was basically no way to read the burn patterns and you had to tune using EGTs and detonation counters.

[Diesel_vert]

Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negativ impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump.

SULPHUR AND LUBRICITY
As I understand it, lubricity isn't overly affected by the presence or absence of sulphur - it's the refining process used to remove sulphur which reduces the lubricity of diesel, as I point out using selected quotes from this SAE technical paper (PDF, 825 KB):

... To answer the question whether the inherent lubricity of untreated gas oil was lost by the decrease of sulphur and nitrogen compounds these type of compounds were added back into fuel

The addition of the three compounds to ULSD 1 shows no significant effect on the improvement of the base fuel lubricity

As can be concluded from these experiments, sulphur compounds in untreated diesel fuel are not providing lubricity protection...

Concerned by this, the FIE (Fuel Injection Equipment) Manufacturers have released a joint statement on this issue (PDF, 666 KB):

... It is essential that the lubricity of the fuel as measured by the HFRR test specified in ISO 12156-1 meets the requirement of a wear scar diameter not greater than 460 microns...

... the useful operating lifetime of any mechanical component will be adversely affected by fuel with a lubricity exceeding 460 microns.

FUEL QUALITY
So does the current diesel fuel meet this requirement? If you fill up in Europe or Australia, then yes.

Since 1999 the European Standard for diesel, EN 590:1999 (which has since been superceded by EN 590:2004 and EN 590:2009), has stipulated a maximum wear limit of 0.460 mm (460 microns) which, according to the FIE Manufacturers' statement, satisfies their requirements. Australia adopted the same requirement from 16 October 2002, as shown in the Fuel Quality Standards Act 2000.

However, in the U.S. the current fuel standard for diesel (ASTM D975) allows a maximum wear limit of 0.520 mm (520 microns) which is some 13% higher than European and Australian standards. It also allows a minimum cetane index of 40, compared to 46 for Europe and Australia. This is partly why Americans are so concerned about fuel quality (sucks to be them, eh?) which is why they have people doing studies like comparing 19 additives (original thread). Type "spicer additive test" in Google to see further discussions on TDIClub and BITOG forums, etc.

(According to that study, it appears to be possible to reduce the lubricity of fuel from using certain additives, though they say "the cause for this is speculative".)



BIODIESEL
Another commonly known and effective way of increasing lubricity is to add biodiesel. Even at just 2%, biodiesel shows great reduction in wear (ranked 1st in the study, see above). Similarly, ULSD with 5% biodiesel shows the least wear compared to untreated fuels in the SAE technical paper. And as part of the EU Biofuels Directive, EN 590:2004 has permitted up to 5% biodiesel, and up to a futher 7% in EN 590:2009, with the blessing of the FIE manufacturers:

... The European diesel fuel standard EN 590:2009 includes diesel blends with up to 7 % FAME (B7). The agreed position of all FIE manufacturers undersigned is to limit release of injection equipment for admixtures up to a maximum of 7 % FAME (meeting EN 14214:2009) with the resulting blend meeting the EN 590:2009 standard.

Since 1 March 2009, Australian diesel also permits up to 5% biodiesel.



CONCLUSION
Now, since European and Australian diesel fuel must comply with regulation (either by using biodiesel, additives, or whatever it takes to get it under 460 microns), and the FIE manufacturers have reached a consensus of that being a satisfactory limit, there really shoudn't be any concern on this matter. That's not to say older equipment will be completely trouble free (I think seal compatibility might still be a concern), but modern equipment designed for 10 ppm sulphur diesel shouldn't be failing due to excessive wear from inadequate fuel lubricity.

(Keep in mind the differences in fuel standards as previously noted when reading up on lubricity, especially from American forums).

That's my take on the issue of lubricity. Precisely what other effects arise from adding 2-stroke oil to the fuel tank of a Euro 4 or Euro 5 diesel engine, I don't know (or can't be bothered to find out ). Those with particulate filters, I'd urge some degree of caution before proceeding. Many vehicle manufacturers have mandated the complusory use of the latest generation of lubricant technology (i.e. low-SAPS oils), such is the effect of traditional oils and its additives have, not just on the filter's service life, but on EGR valves as well.

[WEDEL.1]

I hope that the owners of the TDI with the DPF who read this thread will not do this experiment, because they will reduce the life of their DPF and for sure void the warranty (engine and fuel system).

YF original post;

In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clogg, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.

So, why do you discount this? I'm not trying to cause an argument, but you are saying no without a reason.

I would think that if a warranty was refused, they (VW) would have to prove that this traement was the cause of a problem. If they cannot prove this, they must accept your claim.

How can you tell if your VW has a DPF? I don't know if my 2008 1.9 TDI has one or not. I have never seen a picture of one so I don't know if the Golf has one or not.The manual with the car is as helpfull as SA Police. The only this I saw was someone wrote;

If you can see exhaust smoke, you don't have DPF. On that basis, I don't have one.

Maris

[Transporter]

YF original post;

In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clogg, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.

So, why do you discount this? I'm not trying to cause an argument, but you are saying no without a reason.

I would think that if a warranty was refused, they (VW) would have to prove that this traement was the cause of a problem. If they cannot prove this, they must accept your claim.

How can you tell if your VW has a DPF? I don't know if my 2008 1.9 TDI has one or not. I have never seen a picture of one so I don't know if the Golf has one or not.The manual with the car is as helpfull as SA Police. The only this I saw was someone wrote;

If you can see exhaust smoke, you don't have DPF. On that basis, I don't have one.

Maris

As Diesel_vert said in the quote bellow

That's my take on the issue of lubricity. Precisely what other effects arise from adding 2-stroke oil to the fuel tank of a Euro 4 or Euro 5 diesel engine, I don't know (or can't be bothered to find out ). Those with particulate filters, I'd urge some degree of caution before proceeding. Many vehicle manufacturers have mandated the complusory use of the latest generation of lubricant technology (i.e. low-SAPS oils), such is the effect of traditional oils and its additives have, not just on the filter's service life, but on EGR valves as well.

I can only add to that, those who have the DPF use special engine oil with very low sulphur content, so when the engine burns clean diesel fuel in the cylinder the residue of that very low sulphur engine oil that also burns in the cylinder and goes through the DPF and exhaust system will greatly contribute to the total amount sooth particles trapped in the DPF. When you put 2 stroke engine oil in the fuel your ULS diesel fuel will have more sulphur in it than is allowed, plus you will also burn in the cylinder additives from that 2 stroke oil.

Of course, if you don't have the DPF and EGR in your system, your engine will burn it without fuss, but still I wouldn't put 2 stroke oil in the fuel, it was newer designed as the diesel additive. Just use the diesel additive and you have one less thing to worry about when the things go south. Just imagine that you have a problem with your engine, related to the fuel and you would say to your mechanic or to VW workshop "I used the 2 stroke oil as an additive as I red on the internet". It's just not worth it.

You know that you have the DPF when you have yellow light in the instruments.

[kaanage]

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Last edited by benno; 07-08-2009 at 02:04 AM. Reason: leaving the forum due to draconian rules and excessive moderation

I now see that the original source for the thread was the same Freelander link that I found from Signbloke's links but had been removed by the OP. Funny how the same topic has reared it's head after all this time.

I'll be trying it with the PD engine for sure but will hold off (for now) with the CR

WEDEL.1, your 1.9 PD won't have a DPF

[WEDEL.1]

That's right it doesn't. Checked the manual last night to see what the light looks like, then turned the ignition on, the light is not there. Still, I'd use the 2T oil even if I did have a DPF.

With a google search, there are many forums running this story (Briskoda, nissanpatrol, 4X4). I have yet to see anyone have a problem through using 2T.

Maris