2 stroke oil (2SO) as an additive to diesel fuel

[CardinalSin]

I agree, thousands is a stretch, but mostly because you really can't tell from the evidence available how widespread the usage is. It'sa all guesswork.
If you read thorough most of these threads with an objective mind, it really looks like each forum has one or two people who absolutly rave about using it, a couple that say its a bad idea for whatever reason, a lot who post only once or twice to report very short term findings and the rest who look at the the apparent benefits and make a decision about whether they can even be bothered to do it.
I like to think I'm a fairly objective thinker. I'm not ready to call this one as good or bad, and no amount of argument short of a scientific paper with clear test results is going to convince mW either way, until I've had the time to prove the benefit or lack thereof for myself.
For instance, as Australians, we should all drink more water and eat less meat, but mostly we can't be bothered, even when there's plenty of evidence to support it. I can't see that many of us are going to be convinced by a whole lot of second and third hand circumstantial evidence that we should add 2so oil to our fuel for an unproven benefit.

I read through this entire thread and there are loads of people who tried it with positive results and said they would continue to use it. I agree, only a few diehards keep posting on a regular basis but just from this one thread there might be 50+ who were totally impressed and are still using it. They share it with others, as I have done. It's not a new idea, definitely thousands and if you had read as much as I have I think you would agree.

2 stroke oil in your diesel fuel - Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum

[kaanage]

At the end of the day, none of us who advocate adding 2 stroke oil to our diesel fuel will try to force anyone else to do so. But I (and I would expect the others that so so) object to people posting highly speculative potential "issues" that it may cause, especially when a small amount of thought will show how baseless most of this speculation is.

I am happy to accept that there are a few people who have had an issue when running 2 stroke oil in their diesel although I am yet to find a case where the issue was proven to be caused by the 2 stroke oil. This is analogous to someone who doesn't accept the beneficial findings and observations of those of us who do use it but I am not going to brow beat those who have experienced an issue to "prove" to them and others that the 2 stroke oil was not the cause.

I feel the likelyhood of 2 stroke oil being a beneficial additive is very high, given a statistical view of the posts on various forums that I have checked while investigating this practice (much greater numbers of people experience some positive findings vs those with issues), along with my own experiences and those of some people I know. The likelyhood becomes even higher when you consider it is the nature of the internet that people will posts complaints more often than praises.

My position is that it's worth trying - a single dose won't give the greatest benefit to a high mileage diesel but then it won't be enough to trigger any catastrophic event either (not that I believe that it would)

[ParaBul]

I thought this was a good informative post from what appears to be an ideal source.

Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum - View Single Post - 2 stroke oil in your diesel fuel

A TD42ti is old school low tech diesel - electronic controlled rotary fuel pump, with mechanical injectors. It's not an ideal reference source for people considering 2SO in a modern VW diesel.

[kaanage]

The commonrail PSA diesel used in the Land Rover Freelander 2 is pretty comparable, however.

Freel2.com - View topic - 2-stroke oil and diesel

It would be interesting if you do try it in your GTD that you post back your findings (be they positive, negative or neutral)

[brad]

It's still early days and you have to consider other factors such as:
Ambient temps are warmer (my summer economy is usually better than winter economy)
My regular commute has gone from 2 lanes 80kmh with heavy traffic to 3 lanes 100/110kmh with the same number of cars (so the traffic is effectively 30% less dense).

But!
1) It genuinely appears that from a cold start the average economy reading drops towards the "normal" fuel economy much quicker. It takes about 15 minutes to get to optimal consumption where-as previously it was 20 minutes. This might be because of higher ambient temperatures but the temp gauge gets to it's usual spot in about the same time frame. I do wonder if there's a fraction less friction between the pistons / piston rings / cylinder walls (I'm trying to understand what the 2SO would do as I don't think it's a combustion thing).

2) My economy at 110kph has improved. Previously, I'd avoid doing 110-115kph as my economy noticeably dropped away at those speeds. I'd usually trundle along in the slow lane doing 100-105. If I took advantage of the 15km stretch of 110kph motorway my average for the 47km journey would jump from 6.5L/100km to 6.9L/100km. At the moment, sitting on the speed limit the whole journey (47km takes 40 minutes) I'm pulling into the car park reading 6.3L/100km. On the way home I'm getting down as low as 5.4L/100km just before I leave the motorway with the avg readout at 6.0L/100km when I park.

So why would my 110kph fuel consumption drop from mid to high 7.xxL/100 to low 7.xxL/100???

If there are other factors that may be influencing the results so you need to monitor this long term (6 months) and then remove the 2SO from the equation & monitor it again for 6 months.

[Ryeman]

If you have a cruise around the interwebs you'll find "thousands" is probably quite a conservative estimate. We aren't just talking the AU market, which is relatively small. Look at the Euro / UK diesel car fleet and you become aware of how many use the stuff.

Look at a few US forums & it's surprising how many are using it in their petrol vehicles at 500:1 or in the numerous F250 diesels, Dodge Rams etc. I wouldn't have believed it either but they're out there.

Have you ever actually modded a vehicle or ran/maintained it outside what most would consider "the normal boundaries"?

For 50+ years I've been maintaining my own vehicles from my dad's FE up until now which is a step to far for me nowadays.
I converted a Peugeot 604 to LPG using a Volvo induction manifold and attaching a performance carb to it plus an electronic ignition system to replace the other nightmare......it ran happily for 200+K until nr1 took it over and lost interest. I've always had a 'preventative maintenance' attitude and that's why this subject intrigues me.



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[brad]

For 50+ years I've been maintaining my own vehicles from my dad's FE up until now which is a step to far for me nowadays.
I converted a Peugeot 604 to LPG using a Volvo induction manifold and attaching a performance carb to it plus an electronic ignition system to replace the other nightmare......it ran happily for 200+K until nr1 took it over and lost interest. I've always had a 'preventative maintenance' attitude and that's why this subject intrigues me.

You certainly know how to use a spanner. From your posts I perceived you to be very conservative. I'm glad I asked rather than continue to think of you as "Mr OEM"

[brad]

I was in a bit of a hurry on the commute this morning so was cruising around 115-118. Fuel economy was ridiculously good compared to a few months back - sitting around 6.5L/100.

What is happening that would cause this? (this is speculation)
1) as previously stated - less friction?
2) Could it be that it is causing what appears to the O2 sensor(s) as a rich mixture and therefore the O2 is saying to run leaner (not neccessarily too lean)
3) Could it be that the O2 sensor(s) on this car is/are a bit fouled / contaminated due to running rich on ethanol blend 100ron and the 2SO is acting as a solvent & cleaning some of the soot off therefore giving a more accurate reading from the O2 sensor?

On yesterdays drive home I got down to 4.9L/100km at the 23km mark - then hit 20kph stop/start traffic for the next 10km (Sydney we love you!) followed by 12km of 80kph. Rolled into the driveway still reading 5.9L/100km. I've managed that many times before but usually i have to get a dream run all the way home.

[CardinalSin]

I was in a bit of a hurry on the commute this morning so was cruising around 115-118. Fuel economy was ridiculously good compared to a few months back - sitting around 6.5L/100.

What is happening that would cause this? (this is speculation)
1) as previously stated - less friction?
2) Could it be that it is causing what appears to the O2 sensor(s) as a rich mixture and therefore the O2 is saying to run leaner (not neccessarily too lean)
3) Could it be that the O2 sensor(s) on this car is/are a bit fouled / contaminated due to running rich on ethanol blend 100ron and the 2SO is acting as a solvent & cleaning some of the soot off therefore giving a more accurate reading from the O2 sensor?

On yesterdays drive home I got down to 4.9L/100km at the 23km mark - then hit 20kph stop/start traffic for the next 10km (Sydney we love you!) followed by 12km of 80kph. Rolled into the driveway still reading 5.9L/100km. I've managed that many times before but usually i have to get a dream run all the way home.

This thread could be updated to fuel instead of diesel?
Those economy figures are fantastic for a petrol engine, especially if you are still running the part ethanol fuel. Ethanol has a lower energy content and relies on high advance to take advantage of it's high octane rating.

Petrol engines produce a lot of soot these days, you can see it in the tail pipes. We know that 2SO reduces the soot levels so it's reasonable to assume it's running cleaner. The 2SO would lower friction in the fuel system and cylinders, also the detergents would clean all of those areas but after combustion it should be gone. Maybe the 02 probe has been cleaned over time by that cleaner combustion?

If this is valid, emission tests should show lower results for petrol engines too.

It makes me wonder why I got the diesel?

[kaanage]

So, brad, are you running at 500:1 with petrol, like the guys in the US forums?