103kW/125kw TDI PD Piezo Siemens injector failure thread

[kaanage]

Aren't the Piezo pump-jets the newer injectors that are causing the problems? (last gasp for the PD before surcumbing to CR)

[poyta]

No doubt aftermarket injectors will come, and given the cost VW will no doubt charge, it's the way I'd go. At this stage all I've been able to find is they cost $400ish pound EACH in the UK, love to know what the going price is here.

Thats scary - especially considering my warranty has just finished.

[Greg Roles]

Is this from Wikipedia, because if it is, it's got a LOT of mistakes, when I have more time tonight I'll post up the facts.

for the PD versions they both use same injectors, however the 125kw uses a higher pressure, also differences in the ECU and turbo? and the 125kw has the DPF. From wiki and other links they are otherwise the same.

ere is the difference between the 2 TDI engines - the outputs vary within each of the specifcations depending on ECU. The new 2.0 TDI as far as I know, does not have a Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT). This engine is being phased out over the next few years, in favour of an all new design, with the Pump-Dusse injection system being replaced with a Common Rail injections system.

2.0 TDI with 103 kW: 209 kph is the top speed of the 103 kW / 140 bhp (at 4,000 rpm) Passat 2.0 TDI. The four-cylinder engine develops a maximum torque of 320 Newton metres as low as 1,800 rpm, and takes just 9.8 seconds for an easy 0-100 kph sprint before reaching the top speed of 209 kph. Average consumption: 5.9 litres. This TDI performance level can be combined with a diesel particle filter.

Numerous details were modified in order to facilitate the use of an optional, additive-free diesel particle filter in the 2.0 TDI. Some examples: in order to allow the DPF to be mounted as close to the engine as possible, the position of the exhaust turbocharger was changed. The pressure with which the pump-jet element injects fuel into the slightly modified combustion chambers was also increased to as much as 2,400 bar. In addition to this, the pumping characteristic of the pump-jet was modified to allow additional injections for the thermal regeneration of the filter or other reasons. Engineers concurrently succeeded in further reducing the oil consumption, another measure to increase the efficiency of the DPF. The diesel particle filter is maintenance-free, and forms a modular unit with the oxidation catalytic converter.

2.0 TDI with 125 kW: The second 2.0 TDI, fitted with highly innovative piezo pump-jet high pressure injection and a compensator shaft, is a completely new design. This very quiet, four-valve TDI has an output of 125 kW / 170 bhp (4,200 rpm), develops a torque of 350 Newton metres (1,800-2,500 rpm), and accelerates the saloon to 100 kph in just 8.7 seconds. The top speed is 223 kph. Here, too, the average fuel consumption is low, at 6.1 litres over 100 kilometres.

Technically, the 125-kW TDI, with its switched induction manifold for turbulence control, is based on its 103-kW equivalent without diesel particle filter. This cultivated engine is the world's first piezo pump-jet TDI. Further technical features are two compensator shafts (reducing secondary vibrations by up to 80 percent), a maintenance*free diesel particle filter, and an injection pressure of up to 2,200 bar. The specific power of the 2.0 TDI, at 62.5 kW per litre, is a new best. Although the new TDI has power and convenience characteristics that come very close to those of a five- or six*cylinder turbo-diesel, the consumption and emission figures are in the low four-cylinder range.

Technologically, a central factor in the achievement of high power and convenience values together with low consumption is the use of the newly developed piezo pump-jet elements. Using one of the piezo actuators to control the high-pressure valve of the pump-jet permits:

· -very high injection pressure, and thus low emission and optimum specific power.

· -ideal hydraulic efficiency because of the very small high*pressure volume.

· -ideal injection process.

· -very precise, low-volume pre-injection at a low pressure level.

· -flexibly controlled pre- and post-injection and injection intervals.

· -low injection noise.

A further innovation in the TDI is the use of a newly developed compensator-shaft module. The term "module" is easy to explain: the two counter-rotating compensator shafts (turning at twice the engine revs), together with the oil pump, form a separate module located under the cylinder crankcase. The compensator shafts noticeably reduce the amount of vibration that is transmitted to the bodywork.

[RobV]

Hi Greg,
Try $1500 per injector, and its the wiring loom that starts it all. The insulation hardens, cracks and falls apart, then shorts the injectors to ground, and hey prestor, $7500 worth of headache.
Rob V

[OilBurna]

mine was just over $4,000 to replace including loom.

[Greg Roles]

Hi Greg,
Try $1500 per injector, and its the wiring loom that starts it all. The insulation hardens, cracks and falls apart, then shorts the injectors to ground, and hey prestor, $7500 worth of headache.
Rob V

Wow now that's both scary, yet interesting. So perhaps if working looms could be better protected from oil and heat, the problem might be minimised....but it would seem both loom and injectors can fail as both are usually replaced at once on warranty claims.

[Hilly]

So, I gather just the loom itself is over $1,000 fitted? I was thinking maybe it would be "cheap" insurance to replace the loom, but of course most units aren't going to experience this fault (I assume), so it may not be $ well spent?

[Static]

Greg,

Have you been able to find out if this is fixed in new cars ? Looks like I'll be ordering mine Monday.

[Transporter]

Wow now that's both scary, yet interesting. So perhaps if working looms could be better protected from oil and heat, the problem might be minimised....but it would seem both loom and injectors can fail as both are usually replaced at once on warranty claims.

I remember seeing the wiring loom failure on 103TDI Golfs with non-piezo injectors. Also loose injectors being reported on Dieselpower.cz for some time. Usual fix is repair the thread in the cylinder head and seal in injector. Without knowing the full history of the failed engine (car) it will be hard to get at the bottom of what cause the failure as many of causes I read are just speculations (IMO).

[PeDiES]

Hi Greg,
Try $1500 per injector, and its the wiring loom that starts it all. The insulation hardens, cracks and falls apart, then shorts the injectors to ground, and hey prestor, $7500 worth of headache.
Rob V

ive gotten a few of these in at work, the problem isn't the loom breaking its the injector shorting out, thats why when it happens the car will not run at all because it shorts the whole circut.

this doesn't damage any of the other injectors or the loom, the main reason (not only reason) vw will change the loom is because the plugs shatter when removing them (sometimes not, no loom required). To replace them you need a tool kit to get them out (which i have) it includes other peices like dial indicator mount so that you can set up the clearances of the rockers.

To sum up, if it happens to your car you can replace just the one injector, ive only seen number 2 fail so far, but ive only done 2 cars.
No doubt the other might fail but i think its worth the $4500 difference to hope for the best.