What oil for the R36

[vdeknock]

Being German (Eurpopean) they will also have a grade of oil which is different to the viscosity range. You have to also meet that specification which will be in the manual.

[Lance B]

Then you will be taking your engine's warranty to the oil company that is saying that oil meets particular specs not the VW dealer for the repairs.

Here is an example:
I will make my own oil put the sticker on it that will say "meets and exceeds VW specs" you buy it and your engine will suffer the damage than you go to VW dealer demanding the engine to be repaired by the warranty what do you think will follow?
I hope that explains.

You can't be serious. For me to make that claim, I would have to have proof that it meets that standard, just like any drug company, food stuff manufacturer, fuel manufacturer, oil manufacturer, car manufacturer, cable manufacturer, medical equipment manufacturer etc, etc. You cannot just manufacture something and then claim that it meets a standard without actually doing the tests. These companies have to show test reports which are show that the oils are tested by independent test laboratories/authorities, like NATA, MILSPEC, or whomever.

These oil companies have their oil checked to meet the specs they advertise, otherwise it is false advertising and they would be in big trouble.

The onus is on VW to prove that the oils was the reason for the failure, and then they would have to prove that it was the oil not meeting their standards/specs. The onus is not up to you as all you have to do is show them the oil you used and as long as it meets the standards, ie API, ACEA, VW etc, then VW has to prove that it was the oil that caused the failure.

VW cannot make you use a specific brand of oil in the same way as they cannot make you use a specific brand of fuel.

Get it from them in writing and post it here.
Alternatively have a look in your vehicle owner's manual.
For minor top ups you should be fine for complete oil change no.

For the R36, the oil quoted in the manual states that the oil must meet the VW standard of VW 504 00. All this means is that VW have a standard and they call it VW 504 00. It is not rocket science, as Rocket36 so aptly put it, and all it means is that it is another type of standard, just like API, ACEA, MIL Spec, UL, etc.

You also seem to forget that oils are manufactured to a certain standard by some companies and that the standard that they use may in fact encompass many other standards inside those parameters and therefore they can state that it meets many standards, not just the one that they originally made it to.

Full synthetic oils are generally so good that they far and away out perform any car manufacturers requirements because most of these requirements are for standard mineral oils or semi synthetics. In fact, many synthetic oil companies recommend that you do not put these oils in your car until they have fully run-in as these oils are so low in friction that they may not allow the engine to bed in correctly. They state that this will not affect the engine other than that it may affect economy and/or performance.

My company sells specialist cables and some of it is made to Australian Standards, some to MIL Spec and other cables to other specs, and it is stated in the cable's specs that it meets those standards. Some of these cables are made to an Australian Spec, some to other specs, but the specific spec also allows the cable to also encompass other specs from other parts of the world or other companies requirements.

[Transporter]

You can't be serious. For me to make that claim, I would have to have proof that it meets that standard, just like any drug company, food stuff manufacturer, fuel manufacturer, oil manufacturer, car manufacturer, cable manufacturer, medical equipment manufacturer etc, etc. You cannot just manufacture something and then claim that it meets a standard without actually doing the tests. These companies have to show test reports which are show that the oils are tested by independent test laboratories/authorities, like NATA, MILSPEC, or whomever.

These oil companies have their oil checked to meet the specs they advertise, otherwise it is false advertising and they would be in big trouble.

The onus is on VW to prove that the oils was the reason for the failure, and then they would have to prove that it was the oil not meeting their standards/specs. The onus is not up to you as all you have to do is show them the oil you used and as long as it meets the standards, ie API, ACEA, VW etc, then VW has to prove that it was the oil that caused the failure.

VW cannot make you use a specific brand of oil in the same way as they cannot make you use a specific brand of fuel.

I think that they already have the prove that oil which has not been approved by them cause (has potential to cause) damage to the engine otherwise they wouldn't say that it has to be approved by them.
You're having the problem to understand the difference between VW approved oil and oil that meets or exceeds specs. (Meets or exceeds is when particular company think that it could meet the VW standard without testing in VW engines).

I say it one last time: VW approved oil is the oil which the oil company sent oil sample to VW for testing, after VW tested their oil they gave them approval valid for 2 years and every 2 years they have to send oil sample for retesting again and again in order to be able to say on their product “APPROVED by VW”.

If you think that you know better and you can make VW to repair the engine damage after you used not APPROVED oil, that is OK by me but don’t make other people who come to this forum for information believe that they can use what ever API or SAE approved oil, because they can’t.

[Lance B]

I think that they already have the prove that oil which has not been approved by them cause (has potential to cause) damage to the engine otherwise they would say that it has to be approved by them.
You're having the problem to understand the difference between VW approved oil and oil that meets or exceeds specs. (Meets or exceeds is when particular company think that it could meet the VW standard without testing in VW engines).

I say it one last time: VW approved oil is the oil which the oil company sent oil sample to VW for testing, after VW tested their oil they gave them approval valid for 2 years and every 2 years they have to send oil sample for retesting again and again in order to be able to say on their product “APPROVED by VW”.

This is really funny. I am not having the difficulty in understanding the difference between approved oil and oil that meets or exceeds the specs, you are. Being "approved" does not make it mandatory, just that this is the oil that VW recommend, but there can be others as long as it meets the spec, it is not a case of must use, or else. The only thing that you must use is the spec, not the approval.

Also, the manual states that the oil must be VW 504 00, it says

If you think that you know better

It's got nothing to do with whether "I know better", it's the law and also that there is no magic oil that VW has approved that makes in invincible against oil related engine failure and also that VW engineers are no better than oil engineers.

and you can make VW to repair the engine damage after you used not APPROVED oil, that is OK by me but don’t make other people who come to this forum for information believe that they can use what ever API or SAE approved oil, because they can’t.

Again, the law states that they can use it because the specs, not approval, say that it can be used. Also, as I said before, you cannot be made to use a particular manufacturers consumable, like oil, just as you cannot be made to use a particular manufacturersfuel.

Also, all the manual states is that the oil must be VW 504 00, it says absolutely nothing about it needing to be Castrol!! So, even the manual states that the oil has only to be VW 504 00, and therefore any oil that meets that spec is what can be safely used.

[Rocket36]

Lance, there's a certain point where you simply have to give up. Let Transporter think what he wants.

For everyone else, if you use oil as per the specification in the manual, there are no issues whatsoever. It doesn't have to be a particular brand, just a particular specification.

[brad]

This is really funny. I am not having the difficulty in understanding the difference between approved oil and oil that meets or exceeds the specs, you are.

Actually, you are having difficulty.

Being "approved" does not make it mandatory, just that this is the oil that VW recommend, but there can be others as long as it meets the spec, it is not a case of must use, or else. The only thing that you must use is the spec, not the approval.

VW Approved Oil is mandatory. The Service manual says so. VW publish a list of Approved Oils which is several pages long so it's not like you are locked into a specific brand or have to buy direct from VW.

IIRC, to gain approval requires a submission to VWs oil testing laboratories & payment of a fee (3000Euro?). When Penrite gained Approval for their Eco oil they were fairly keen to show off the letter from VW.

Any oil manufacturer can mix an oil that meets the spec but it will only get VWs stamp if they have paid the fee & got the letter of Approval.

It's got nothing to do with whether "I know better", it's the law and also that there is no magic oil that VW has approved that makes in invincible against oil related engine failure and also that VW engineers are no better than oil engineers.

Maybe VW are trying to protect their customers from using sub-standard lubricants?

Again, the law states that they can use it because the specs, not approval, say that it can be used. Also, as I said before, you cannot be made to use a particular manufacturers consumable, like oil, just as you cannot be made to use a particular manufacturersfuel.

VW aren't making anyone use a particular consumable. They are asking you to use an Approved oil. The approval process requires a payment & a letter of approval (Certificate of Conformance for want of a better term).

Also, all the manual states is that the oil must be VW 504 00, it says absolutely nothing about it needing to be Castrol!! So, even the manual states that the oil has only to be VW 504 00, and therefore any oil that meets that spec is what can be safely used.

No, it has to be approved. Meeting the spec doesn't cut it.

On the other hand, the R36 may not actually need VW504.00. I haven't seen the manual but in the case of my Skoda, VW504.00 is only needed for cars on QG1 variable service regime, which we don't do in Australia. QG0 & QG2 (fixed servicing) only need VW502.00. In theory, all Australian vehicles are on QG0/QG2 even if they came from the factory on QG1.

I'd be interested to see a scan of the manual (near the same area as checking the oil level) and see what it says.

[Rocket36]

Here it is...

Specification:


Warning:


As you can see, all the manual says is to use only oils that have the specification authorised for the engine. I.e. the oil has to be the specificiation that's approved by VW for use in the engine. Therefore, using ANY oil that has the specification as per the manual is perfectly fine.

I also just got off the phone with my service department.

The oil used is Castrol Edge Sport 5W30 specifically designed to meet specifications of many manufacturers (incl. VW). It meets the requirements as specified in the manual (502 00).

See page 5:
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...0_B1970_05.pdf

[Lance B]

Here it is...

Specification:


Warning:


As you can see, all the manual says is to use only oils that have the specification authorised for the engine. I.e. the oil has to be the specificiation that's approved by VW for use in the engine. Therefore, using ANY oil that has the specification as per the manual is perfectly fine.

Exactly. Any oil that meets the VW spec will do, ie VW 504 00 or whatever to which *any* manufacturer can have their oil spec made to and meet. Thank you Rocket36

[Rocket36]

Thank you Rocket36

No worries... Just wanted to clear up the confusion some people seem to have once and for all.

[brad]

Actually, you are having difficulty.

Not at all. I am not falling for marketing by oil companies that seek approval from VW in order to have the VW recommendation, which is not mandatory. See below

VW Approved Oil is mandatory. The Service manual says so.

I see no reference to VW approved oil being mandatory, only the spec, and in my case for the R36 that is VW504 00.

VW publish a list of Approved Oils which is several pages long so it's not like you are locked into a specific brand or have to buy direct from VW.

IIRC, to gain approval requires a submission to VWs oil testing laboratories & payment of a fee (3000Euro?). When Penrite gained Approval for their Eco oil they were fairly keen to show off the letter from VW.

Any oil manufacturer can mix an oil that meets the spec but it will only get VWs stamp if they have paid the fee & got the letter of Approval.

Approval is just a marketing ploy by the oil companies in order to gain a recommendation by VW and therefore hope that people will use their oil instead of some other oil that also meets the VW standard but does not have the stamp of approval. It has nothing to do with any mandatory or legal reason to use that oil, it is pure merketing.

Maybe VW are trying to protect their customers from using sub-standard lubricants?

I am sure they are and this is why they may provide a list of oils that VW approves of, but that does not limit people into buying the specific oils on that list and that you are free to use an oil that meets the VW 504 00 (or whatever) standard that VW quote.

VW aren't making anyone use a particular consumable. They are asking you to use an Approved oil. The approval process requires a payment & a letter of approval (Certificate of Conformance for want of a better term).


No, it has to be approved. Meeting the spec doesn't cut it.

Yes it does because the law says that they cannot restrict you from using it if it meets the standard set out by VW, example VW 504 00 or whatever.

On the other hand, the R36 may not actually need VW504.00. I haven't seen the manual but in the case of my Skoda, VW504.00 is only needed for cars on QG1 variable service regime, which we don't do in Australia. QG0 & QG2 (fixed servicing) only need VW502.00. In theory, all Australian vehicles are on QG0/QG2 even if they came from the factory on QG1.

I'd be interested to see a scan of the manual (near the same area as checking the oil level) and see what it says.

See that posted by Rocket 36.

I also just got off the phone with my service department.

The oil used is Castrol Edge Sport 5W30 specifically designed to meet specifications of many manufacturers (incl. VW). It meets the requirements as specified in the manual (502 00).

Thanks for that - exactly what I wanted to see.

See the warning on the lower part of page 35? That's the "gotcha" - Use only oils which have the specifications which have been authorisedfor your engine. The "authority" is sending the oil to VW for testing & receiving their authorisation that it is VW approved.

FWIW, last oil change I used Castrol Edge Sport 5w-30 because it was VW502.00 approved. I'll probably use Mobil1 0w40 next time time because it is also approved.

When I had the last service done, the service manager mentioned they were waiting on Valvoline to come back to them with written evidence that SynPower was VW Approved - apparently it met the spec but wasn't approved.

Heres a simple question:
If the oil simply had to have the correct specification (meet the spec) then why would VW:

1. Have a testing process
2. charge a significant amount of money for it
3. publish a list of approved oils