Passat TFSI or 4 motion

[Swallowtail]

A standard early model VN could get to a 100 in low 8's. A VL with just a little bit of work done to it will be quicker - as quick as a modded GTI if not faster. And anyway, if Perth is like NSW and Vic in terms of what cars p-platers drive, then a GTI and a turbo VL would be off limits anyway so it's irrelevant.

As for the other comments about how AWD is "bad" (invincibility) so if you had the choice of buying your child a car - you wouldn't get an AWD car because of what his/her perceived safety in the car would be? That's when your argument turns to blaming the car for killing rather than the driver.

Education is the key - send them to a defensive driving course so they can see the limits and what happens when you break them.

P.S. Just asking a question, not putting words anywhere.

Many many reasons why I wouldn't let my kid loose in a VN or a VL. Standard or modded. Safety was never a primary concern in those days... and they are fast cars in a straight line with poor handling characteristics. But that is not my main point... my point is that young inexperienced drivers should not be driving fast cars. All for safe ones, yes, but fast ones - no. Fast safe ones - still no.

I never said awd is "bad". What I said was that AWD can give a false sense of security, as can any safety measure. To illustrate - a WRX with awd is a weapon. In more ways than one. The awd's system to handle the power and transmit it to the road is amazing, and can generate a familiarity similar to "I can always use full throttle cos this car grips so well". I've seen it happen. Young inexperienced driver thinks the car will always grip and go. Then it doesn't. In the one I saw, it let go rapidly as limits of traction on a wet road was exceeded, it speared off the road into a tree writing the car off and fortunately injuring no-one but a very wounded pride.

In a lower-powered vehicle, say an Impreza RS with awd, the awd is far more of safety feature than a performance feature, as the performance limits of the car make finding the limits of the awd much harder.

That's my meaning when saying that awd can create a feeling of invincibility. I didn't say (or mean) that awd is "bad". I love awd. It rocks.

Education is PART of the key. Whilst defensive driving courses MAY be good, there is some evidence that in some people all they do is again give a false sense of security - a "I've done a defensive driving course so I can get out a skid" whereas in reality they usually have no idea of what to do when a situation arises that they are unprepared for. Not knocking DDCs - they have their place, but they are not a global panacea.

My point, which I (and others who have posted here) see pretty clearly is that I think it is madness to let new drivers loose in high-performance cars. Whether those cars are new ones and thus safer to the driver is not the point I am making. IMHO the restrictions should be based on power to weight ratios, not power / turbo, etc. 200KW in a 3 ton truck is nothing, but in a 1200kg hatch . And power-producing modifications should be banned while on Ps.

As Branko states - when your car doesn't do much performance wise, hooning around loses its appeal.

And cars can still be fun without oodles of power - look at Maca in his TDI Jetta - immaculate car, nice rims, plates, looks fantastic, and great car. Got some go, but not enough to get into TOO much trouble. Hey some people will get into trouble in a 1L 1969 Mini - that was my first car and the girl I sold it to wrapped it around a lamp-post - but it's a hell of a lot harder to do so than in a 3.8L VN Commodore, or a 3.0T VL, or a Golf GTI... etc.

[Pana]

Nothing stops speeding and showboating in young drivers more than having to drive an absolute slug of a car.

how old are you golf houso, because it seems you've forgotten.

Nothing stops speeding and showboating in young drivers if you've got a bunch of mates egging you on to do something stupid and you don't have the brains to tell them to f*ck off. Whether it be oil, waiting until its wet, on dirt etc - you could have the biggest piece of sh*t on the road and you will try to do something with it. If you can't do a burnout, wind it up to 80km/h and pull the handbrake for a laugh - and wrap yourself around a tree/lamp post in the process.

I had a piece of crap VK Commo with a carby - my mates had similar cars - they couldn't pull the skin off rice pudding - but I'll tell you what, I and they almost killed ourselves several times doing stupid stunts "for a laugh" and my car was by no means quick (14sec 0-100km/h)

[Swallowtail]

how old are you golf houso, because it seems you've forgotten.

Nothing stops speeding and showboating in young drivers if you've got a bunch of mates egging you on to do something stupid and you don't have the brains to tell them to f*ck off. Whether it be oil, waiting until its wet, on dirt etc - you could have the biggest piece of sh*t on the road and you will try to do something with it. If you can't do a burnout, wind it up to 80km/h and pull the handbrake for a laugh - and wrap yourself around a tree/lamp post in the process.

I had a piece of crap VK Commo with a carby - my mates had similar cars - they couldn't pull the skin off rice pudding - but I'll tell you what, I and they almost killed ourselves several times doing stupid stunts "for a laugh" and my car was by no means quick (14sec 0-100km/h)

Correct - but it's a hell of a lot easier to achieve a lethal outcome doing the same thing in a car with twice the power.

[Pana]

I think you think I'm saying its ok for a P-plater to drive a turbo car - I'm not and with the new laws, he won't be able to anyway. Theres been about 4 different things spoken about and its come out this way.

However, and this is a big however, if it came down to having a P-plater driving either a late model GTI or some piece of sh*t old Corolla or Magna with rust and blowing oil smoke (two ends of the spectrum I know) - I'd rather the GTI (or my lungs would while following anyway)

[Swallowtail]

I think you think I'm saying its ok for a P-plater to drive a turbo car - I'm not and with the new laws, he won't be able to anyway. Theres been about 4 different things spoken about and its come out this way.

However, and this is a big however, if it came down to having a P-plater driving either a late model GTI or some piece of sh*t old Corolla or Magna with rust and blowing oil smoke (two ends of the spectrum I know) - I'd rather the GTI (or my lungs would while following anyway)

Yes, I will concede that point. Although I do feel your comparison is probably a little skewed - a GTI would rarely be the only choice of new car - I'd rather again they had a Golf 1.6 for less money.

The OP in this instance obviously has $ to buy a new car, so my point here was originally what sort of NEW car I felt the OP should be able to drive as a 17 yr old new driver.

All good fun... been some healthy debates on here today!

[PowerHungry]

I think that choosing to buy a new car is a great initial step.

My 1st and 2nd car were both 1970' Galants, then had a 1979 2L escort. I spend a fair bit of time hoping I would have to stop quickly or go around a corner due to appalling traction, especially of it rained. The fact that they lacked a fair bit of power limited how fast I could go...which was probably a good thing. I did manage to write off a one of them, and my brother destroyed the other (something about trying to chase rabbits).

Moving to an all wheel drive liberty in 2002 was great. It would stop, go around corners, had harsh stability control, and too not much power. This meant that I avoided potential accidents, and reduced my risk of doing stupid things...no sustained loss of traction for me.

My slightly long winded point is that this chance of writing off your 1st car is very high (something to do with too much testosterone). So you might as well get something that is safe, not too much power, and not too expensive. That way you can survive to get a more exciting car for car number 2 (or number 5 in my case).

[ope126]

Some good and not so good comments on this thread...

With out throwing anyone out to dry, but it seems like the author of this thread is nowhere to be seen...

Maybe he still hasn't decided which car mummy or daddy (or the bank) will get for him, have a look at his threads...

Maybe he is one of those 50yr old, 17yr old internet geeks!

Whoops if I have offended anyone who is 50yrs old!

...now back on topic

[Leagle]

Ha ha, I remember reading numerous similar posts and reply on the WRX forums.... I didn't expect almost the same posts AND replies on a VW site particularly regarding a car perceived by many as "boring"!

My 2 cents worth:

1. The person posing the question states he is only 17yo but clearly has the intelligence to know his cars and do some research. Full kudos to him!

2. Not all 17 yo are hoons, though agree that at that age we all feel invincible and take risks that we don't dare to take later on in life. Hope he gets the point!

3. Hopefully the person posting the question will read all the comments... and not come to the conclusion that all our replies are jealously aimed comments by old fogeys (Disclosure: I myself am no spring chicken).

4. Yes, agree with comments you can kill yourself in ANY car. Hopefully the young gent will do an advanced driving course sooner rather than later and drive well within his limits on public roads...

5. Having said all of the above, as long as the law allowed him to drive it, I reckon the AWD Passat would be a great choice - he would be safe in the knowledge that he has one of the safest drivetrains in the planet. If anything, I would worry more for his mates who may try to copy the AWD car's abilities in their FWD/RWD cars! I would NOT get the turbo FWD car!

6. Finally, I can't help to think that this post (like most others before it) are written in the third person, as if the original poster is too young for us to address him directly! So if you you are reading matto247, my huge apologies! My simple straight answer is that yes, 4 motion is worth the extra $$$. I myself opted to buy a Passat with 4 Motion (having previously come from an AWD Subaru).

[V6Passat]

Hey guys new to the forum and well jus turned 17 a couple of weeks ago and looking at a car now havnt decided yet but it's prty much golf/Jetta/passat

well I know like golf wud be the most fun passat wud be the most cruiser car and comfortable anyway bak to my question

is the 4 motion worth the extra 5-8g? I'm planning to remap the ecu with apr"s if I get the tfsi and I know that the 4motion uses the same engine as that off the r32s soo yeah is it worth it and any positives and negatives of the car in general?

Cheers

To Answer your question, YES. I have an 2010 V6 4motion (2 months old) and worth the difference to the others. Just the AWD in my mind was worth the extra money. Plus, they are pretty rare, in Brisbane have only ever seen 3 others. Either way you can't go wrong. PS my first car was a 1972 corrolla 2 door - used more oil than petrol and upon reflection, it was a death trap. If you have the means, then the VW is a great car.

[Yevvy]

Ha ha, I remember reading numerous similar posts and reply on the WRX forums.... I didn't expect almost the same posts AND replies on a VW site particularly regarding a car perceived by many as "boring"!

My 2 cents worth:

1. The person posing the question states he is only 17yo but clearly has the intelligence to know his cars and do some research. Full kudos to him!

2. Not all 17 yo are hoons, though agree that at that age we all feel invincible and take risks that we don't dare to take later on in life. Hope he gets the point!

3. Hopefully the person posting the question will read all the comments... and not come to the conclusion that all our replies are jealously aimed comments by old fogeys (Disclosure: I myself am no spring chicken).

4. Yes, agree with comments you can kill yourself in ANY car. Hopefully the young gent will do an advanced driving course sooner rather than later and drive well within his limits on public roads...

5. Having said all of the above, as long as the law allowed him to drive it, I reckon the AWD Passat would be a great choice - he would be safe in the knowledge that he has one of the safest drivetrains in the planet. If anything, I would worry more for his mates who may try to copy the AWD car's abilities in their FWD/RWD cars! I would NOT get the turbo FWD car!

6. Finally, I can't help to think that this post (like most others before it) are written in the third person, as if the original poster is too young for us to address him directly! So if you you are reading matto247, my huge apologies! My simple straight answer is that yes, 4 motion is worth the extra $$$. I myself opted to buy a Passat with 4 Motion (having previously come from an AWD Subaru).

heh i'm not an old fogey just turned 20 and still on my green p's. now i don't have a 4motion passat, i know its newer, has a new gen haldex, better calibrated esp and is probably easier to drive. however, awd makes you want to go faster and faster around corners, and if you full throttle it in the corner (thinking the car will just grip) the front raises and the rear axle pushes you out wide and very quickly, then you take the power off the front grips and pulls you to the other side. If you had to much opposite lock on you'll be in big trouble.

so my point is, is the awd worth it? YES. But you need to be aware that you are not invincible. good luck with the choice of car. I'd still stick with a tdi passat