Passat R36 Wheel Spacers

[Hillbilly]

Ever pulled the wheels off an early 911 or recent Boxster? There are just to name a few, factory fitted.

As mentioned, the OP wasn't looking for opinions on legalities, he was asking for experiences WITH spacers and suitability for his requirements.

Did you know a pod filter is illegal? Did you know drop spindles are illegal? Blue park light globes? I could go on and on. Happy for the cardigans to sleep with a roadworthy/ADR booklet under their pillow, but what you have to realise is that illegal doesn't always mean dangerous.
I work on my own cars, with my own hands and own tools and have built 35+ cars, including magazine and show winning vehicles without issue or hiccups from the law.
I take the time to post information where possible to help others, and i'm not here to flame down others with personal opinion that is not relevant to the topic.

Hopefully this thread can continue back on its correct informative track, with real world experience, rather than quotations and opinions on legalities by those who've clearly not had experience with the topic at hand.

Each to their own

As in the quote from the ADR rules I posted Factory fitted ones are legal. It seems that others are not.

No I dont sleep with the book but prefer to err on the side of safety and sensibility rather than comments like "legalities dont concern me"

Also like to know my insurance will cover me AND others unlike having an illegal vehicle running around.

[PASHN8]

Points I have all made in my previous posts

OEM spacers have obviously passed ADR but the manufacturer, they can be engineered if you wish if not OEM fitment.

If there's one thing i've learn in 15years of car modification and various track days and club participation, safety and sensibility come from common sense and experience.

Roadworthy items and vehicle legalites are to protect the innocent, from the careless idiots. The ones who chop springs with angle grinders, use Autobarn wheel spacers and other moronic modifications in their backyard with no understanding for physics and simple automotive engineering concepts.

Manufacturers are subject to stringent quality control. Imported items from overseas don't go through those Australian tests even though they can be even stronger and better made than local items. Australian governments simple approach is, I don't care where they are from or who made them, if we haven't put them through OUR specific tests, they are illegal to use. Guilty until proven innocent if you will.
My point is, illegal does NOT equal unsafe or dangerous. Once you understand this, you'll see car modifiying from an entirely different perspective.

I'm really not sure why so many threads these days start with a specific question regarding a modification, which then results in the thread turning a debate about legality. If the OP wants to fit spacers, that is his decision and if something DOES go wrong, he will have to wear the consequences as a result from the perspective of the law, which i'm sure he is more than aware of.

I understand what you are saying Hillbilly and am aware of 'the good book', but all i'm saying is that legalities aside, wheel spacers are perfectly safe when they are a quality made hubcentric spacer like the H&R, with the right high tensile matching length wheel stud.

Safe as houses.

Now back to our usual programming.....where were we again?

[clip]

Now back to our usual programming.....where were we again?

fitting spacers I think. I was looking at fitting up a set, but considering the risk factor and level of consequences should it go wrong (possible death & no insurance coverage), plus when I did the math, it wasn't worth it. H&R's were going to cost me around $330 (spacers, bolts, shipping). Rather put that to some new wheels I think.

[WazR36]

wow i didn't expect this sort of backlash, just some quick advice!
but i have also considered the consequences of spacers, and the fact that the R36 is intended as a family car, and i'll probably just leave them off at this stage.

thanks everyone for your advice.

[Lance B]

Points I have all made in my previous posts

OEM spacers have obviously passed ADR but the manufacturer, they can be engineered if you wish if not OEM fitment.

If there's one thing i've learn in 15years of car modification and various track days and club participation, safety and sensibility come from common sense and experience.

Roadworthy items and vehicle legalites are to protect the innocent, from the careless idiots. The ones who chop springs with angle grinders, use Autobarn wheel spacers and other moronic modifications in their backyard with no understanding for physics and simple automotive engineering concepts.

Manufacturers are subject to stringent quality control. Imported items from overseas don't go through those Australian tests even though they can be even stronger and better made than local items. Australian governments simple approach is, I don't care where they are from or who made them, if we haven't put them through OUR specific tests, they are illegal to use. Guilty until proven innocent if you will.
My point is, illegal does NOT equal unsafe or dangerous. Once you understand this, you'll see car modifiying from an entirely different perspective.

I'm really not sure why so many threads these days start with a specific question regarding a modification, which then results in the thread turning a debate about legality. If the OP wants to fit spacers, that is his decision and if something DOES go wrong, he will have to wear the consequences as a result from the perspective of the law, which i'm sure he is more than aware of.

I understand what you are saying Hillbilly and am aware of 'the good book', but all i'm saying is that legalities aside, wheel spacers are perfectly safe when they are a quality made hubcentric spacer like the H&R, with the right high tensile matching length wheel stud.

Safe as houses.

Now back to our usual programming.....where were we again?

I agree with you on this. The RTA and some people think that if the engineers at the car makers do it, then it's ok and should be the Holy Gospel, but anyone else is not qualified to make modifications even if they are safe.

A perfect example is load carrying ability of tyres fitted to cars etc. I had one of the very first (a particular brand of Japanese light truck which will remain nameless) V6 dual cab utes that were introduced onto the market in the early 1990's that I wanted to put a plus one fitment of larger rims and lower profile tyres on instead of the light truck tyres and pressed steel rims that it came with and I also had an engineers certificate, but then there would have been insurance issues. Even though the carrying capacity of the tyres would have been well over what the gross vehicle mass was, the RTA inspector said to me, "do you think you know better than the engineers of the vehicle?" Well, the question was a little ridiculous as it turns out that I actually did know better and shows how "the engineers of the cars know better" line was just garbage! It is all to do with pricing. Does anyone really think that when a car maker puts low profile tyres and larger rims on the vehicle over the base model that they make any structural/engineering changes to the car whatsoever? No way. They just slap on some tyre wheel package pretty much the same as you or I would do.

Well previous to this, on the day I first picked up the V6 dual cab ute, I checked the compliance plate to make sure that I was able to get FBT exemption for one tonne load capacity and found out that the gross vehicle mass less the 5 passenger mass left it with a load capacity of only 350kg!!! Now, this is wrong because for it to be deemed a commercial vehicle, the load carrying capacity has to be higher than the passenger carrying load. Passengers are deemed to be an everage 75kg each and as it is a 5 seater vehicle, it's passenger carrying mass was therefore 375kg which is more than the actual load carrying capacity of 350kg!! I pointed this out to the owner of the Nissan car yard and his face went white then he raced inside to make a quick phone call to the manufacturer. He came back and said that it would be fixed.

No, it wasn't fitting of beefed up springs, or larger brakes, higher rated tyres, or beefing up the gearbox or diff to carry the extra load especially when considering the extral torque and power of the V6 over the 4 cylinder models. No, their answer was to drill out the compliance plate and change the plate so it gave the load carrying capacity of 760kg!!! (from memory). So much for engineers engineering the ute to take the load, no just change the compliance plate and all this was ok by manufacturer and the RTA, when it suited them!!

As for the plus fittment of tyres and rims etc, it seems that almost anything goes these days, even when they are well over the plus 2 fittment that the RTA now allows, I do believe, as long as the speed and load ratings are adhered to, which is a little silly in many instances considering our 110km/h speed limits. Look at the utes these days with 20+" rims when they normally have 16" as standard.

[brad]

I went from 6.5" ET51 wheels to 8" ET35 (effectively fitting spacers) and the handling degraded. I'm now on 7.5" ET50 and the car feels good. Possibly a wheel alignment may have improved the steering but it would have been at the expense of something else (tyre wear?).

[satz]

my research on spacers indicated a few things:

1. the increased distance from wheel hub could increase the load on bearing/other components through increased torque

2. handling does not automatically benefit from increasing the track, esp as the OP indicated he was going to increase the front and rear tracks in different amounts

3. I believe they are illegal, unless fitted as OEM (which an earlier poster confirmed). I think the OP didn't care about their legality anyway!

4. If you're going to get them then make sure they are the hubcentric type

5. Check to see whether the tyres will come into contact with the fender lip

Why does an R36 need them anyway? The wheels sit nicely, if not quite flush