Dyno Tuning vs ecu remap / chip tuning

[Jarred]

14.7 is much to lean for a turbocharged engine! that'll cause you problems if you run a boosted engine that lean.

12-13:1 is a much better ratio for a turbocharged engine, naturally aspirated cars are better off running closer to 14.7:1, depending on aplication. [power needs etc].

lots of factory tunes for turbo charged engines run 'rich' as this is much more beneficial for the engine. helps with cooling & makes more power, as previously mentioned.

Have you ever seen a XR6T or mkV gti floor it, cause they sometimes give off a small puff of fuel smoke, and that's standard.

to the op. go for the big three, intake, exhaust and chip. for chip brands, stick to something reputable, and you should have not troubles! ie, giac, apr, etc .

[Swallowtail]

Have you ever seen a XR6T or mkV gti floor it, cause they sometimes give off a small puff of fuel smoke, and that's standard.

You should see mine when I floor it... " a small puff of fuel smoke" LOL... more like a huge cloud.

Stock my MPS was dyno'ed at 9.8:1... LOL. Chipped and tuned with CAI, I was running 12 - 13:1, and generating 20% more power atw .

[Rocket36]

I'm fairly certain the majority of cars run a bit rich from the factory... It's built in manufacturer engine protection.

I'll get my re-tune done some time in spring - not too hot, not too cold...

[goodfella]

I got mine flashed back in Mar and my fuel economy hasnt changed enough to care about it. BTW I am averaging 14-15l/100 per month so its not like I drive miss daisy!!

[Lance B]

14.7 in an ideal world yes. The reality is that most modern car manufacturers, particularly in a turbo engine, run on the side of too rich aas the extra fuel assists in engine cooling. My Mazda runs out of the factory at 10 - 11 to 1 AFR. A good tune brought that to 12 - 13 and gets a lot more power whilst still retaining a safety margin for cooling. Most tuners these days get very nervous if they see a turbo vehicle running 14s.

Fair call. My comments were directed at normally aspirated engines, not turbos or supercharged.

[Martin Donnon]

There are some good answers here, and what I can add without breaking forum rules, is that the answer is generally dependant on what the company in question is selling. The legitimate answer to tuning any engine whether it be VW or Lamborghini is to custom tailor it on the dyno for the optimum torque for the ignition timing and air fuel ratio that it will support on the fuel it is being run on

[3Putt]

Thats the whole point of the chips, they bring the overly conservative factory mappings back towards the ideal world figure of 14.7.

The chips lean the cars out to achieve significant performance / economy improvements at minimal risk.

The 1.8T engine has to be one of the most tuned engines in history (behind the 2.0T and the WRX)! All the major chips have been tweaked and retweaked to provide the max possible enhancement over the factory settings, while maintaining a very safe margin above those catastrophic words like pinging, detonation, blowby, and blown turbos.

Go for the chip - you will bring your 1.8T up to the performance level of a factory 2.0T no probs!

[Swallowtail]

Thats the whole point of the chips, they bring the overly conservative factory mappings back towards the ideal world figure of 14.7.

The chips lean the cars out to achieve significant performance / economy improvements at minimal risk.

The 1.8T engine has to be one of the most tuned engines in history (behind the 2.0T and the WRX)! All the major chips have been tweaked and retweaked to provide the max possible enhancement over the factory settings, while maintaining a very safe margin above those catastrophic words like pinging, detonation, blowby, and blown turbos.

Go for the chip - you will bring your 1.8T up to the performance level of a factory 2.0T no probs!

3Putt - as already stated on more than one occasion for modern turbo engines 14.7 is not ideal. Go and try it... been there done that... the most you want with a modern turbo is 12s or 13s. Tuners go pale and very quickly get off the throttle doing dyno runs if they see 14s.

I already commented that my tune took my mazda from 10:1 to 12/13:1, so I am fully aware of what "the point" is...

A chip or a flash (or is that what you mean by "chip"?), or whatever poison you choose, can both (dependent on the car, the technician and the device) get you similar results. With modern ECUs however a "tune" can be very hard to achieve anything with, as they are so locked down. It usually takes either a reflash or a piggyback chip to overcome the factory ECU's built-in parameters to any noticeable extent.

E.g for the Mazda 2.3T motor that I have come from I gained about 20% atw with a piggyback. Others got similar results from a flash. There is quite simply nothing to tune without either one of those paths being taken.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with your post that hasn't already been said? Or am I missing something?

[ron]

There are some good answers here, and what I can add without breaking forum rules, is that the answer is generally dependant on what the company in question is selling. The legitimate answer to tuning any engine whether it be VW or Lamborghini is to custom tailor it on the dyno for the optimum torque for the ignition timing and air fuel ratio that it will support on the fuel it is being run on

Spot on!! is this the real MD that used to write for Ben Ellis??

Back to topic: most tuners will tune for best performance WITH the current fuel that is in the car as it is a factor in the tuning process, but a rich tune=safer tune to compensate for lower RON fuel to prevent engine knocking.

[ron]

3Putt - as already stated on more than one occasion for modern turbo engines 14.7 is not ideal. Go and try it... been there done that... the most you want with a modern turbo is 12s or 13s. Tuners go pale and very quickly get off the throttle doing dyno runs if they see 14s.

I already commented that my tune took my mazda from 10:1 to 12/13:1, so I am fully aware of what "the point" is...

A chip or a flash (or is that what you mean by "chip"?), or whatever poison you choose, can both (dependent on the car, the technician and the device) get you similar results. With modern ECUs however a "tune" can be very hard to achieve anything with, as they are so locked down. It usually takes either a reflash or a piggyback chip to overcome the factory ECU's built-in parameters to any noticeable extent.

E.g for the Mazda 2.3T motor that I have come from I gained about 20% atw with a piggyback. Others got similar results from a flash. There is quite simply nothing to tune without either one of those paths being taken.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with your post that hasn't already been said? Or am I missing something?

you are not missing anything dude, u are just on a different level.
Infact, we did run a Motec in our GTR a few years back and we were able to squeezd out to a near perfect 14 for almost every 100 revs on C10. But as soon an we ran Optimax it was history......all comes down to hareware and tuner.