Tuning Discussion - 132TSI / 162TSI

[Ozsko]

FYI, if they really want then VW can detect the use of JB1 and JB4 as well now.

I was told that a few weeks ago, straight from the horses mouth so to speak, in this case a VW service tech.

[Joegas]

Unichip say there’s is undetectable when removed, +30kw at the wheels, $1990 fitted and tuned on dyno.

[Dan_3MPS]

Test the rumors... Get a JB on your tig, then blow up the engine, transmission or other components, remove JB, take to VW for warranty claim and see if they reject it because of JB,..

Haha! Nahh...

I was told that a few weeks ago, straight from the horses mouth so to speak, in this case a VW service tech.

Interesting. Would be great if we got more info on how.

Unichip say there’s is undetectable when removed, +30kw at the wheels, $1990 fitted and tuned on dyno.

$1990! That's a ripoff, sorry. Ridiculous price.

[Ozsko]

My information is that VW have now introduced detection capability into their software system. Take that for what it is worth and perhaps ask a VW tech, one who works in a dealer not an independent workshop to see if the story is corroborated. I can only repeat what I was told. I would not take what a tuning company tells me as gospel to tell the truth but then I am the world's biggest cynic when it comes to someone trying to sell me something. If you don't ask you will never know for certain and get back to us with the answer.

[tigger73]

Interesting. Would be great if we got more info on how.

The ECU will record peak numbers like maximum request and actual boost. It’s pretty simple to read these values out and compare with what a stock tune does.

I’m not sure if this is exactly what VW is doing but this would be one way to do it.

$1990! That's a ripoff, sorry. Ridiculous price.

Yes for those sorts of $ you can get a proper flash ECU and DSG tune and probably not far away from a DP/stage 2.



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[Joegas]

Haha! Nahh...



Interesting. Would be great if we got more info on how.



$1990! That's a ripoff, sorry. Ridiculous price.

You don’t have to be sorry, I’m not affiliated with them nor have I got one. It’s actually a piggyback ECU, very advanced what it can actually do, even more so than a reflash, do some research. Just thought it may be an option for people that want to keep warranty.

[INASNT]

$1990 is way too much, unless they spend 4-5+ hours fine tuning all rpm setpoints across the entire range.

If they just flash it and run it on the dyno with no adjustments to the baseline flash then you are being taken for a ride.

I have spent many hours at the dyno with tuner fine tuning a car for track use and would only pay $100-$150 an hour.

[Sharkie]

No piggyback is now undetectable by VAG (VW Audi etc). Like Tigger says, they look at what the car has been doing (in the logs) and if that does not match what the car is supposed to be doing in stock form, it is flagged as tuned.

Warranty on all items that can be affected by running a tune (reflash of piggyback) is then automatically void. This is the legal position and fully enforceable by the manufacturers.

And no piggyback, including Unichip, is the equivalent of a proper ECU reflash. All piggybacks (no matter how advanced supposedly) intercepts signals being sent to the ECU and modifies them to achieve different results. With a reflash the actual programming of the ECU is adapted. Do some research.

For what its worth, Unichip has never achieved the same results as a JB for a VAG car, never mind even coming close to a proper reflash. Given your warranty being potentially useless either way, rather spend it on a proper reflash from 1 of the many reputable tuners out there.

[Sydneykid]

Accept this for just a stage 1 tune. Once you go and start upgrading components just increasing the boost and expecting everything else to just follow to suit wont work as VW as all car manufacturers have built in 'nannies' which will hold back you the car performing as it should.

Once you go down the path of upgrading a good tuner can toe the line between being a nanny and power output.

I had a R33 Skyline which made 350kw@wheels many many many many years ago, spent many hours tuning to have the car running as I wanted.

My R32 has 627 RWHP from a 3.1 litre RB, tuned by me, so I understand where you are coming from
But I have no idea what "stage" that is, for sure way past Stage 2, maybe "Stage 27" as nothing is OE except for a few castings and even they are machined.

Back to VW's, I'd have no problems with a JB4 with say an upgraded exhaust, dump, inlet and intercooler (some people would call that Stage 2). It would handle that OK within its tuning envelope. But changing turbos, camshafts, compression ratio, injectors, fuel pumps etc that gets outside the envelope. Depending on how big the changes are, it then can even get outside of the OE ECU tuning range pretty quickly and compromises are required, that's aftermarket ECU territory.

The problem I have with tuning OE ECU's is that they are time consuming and hence costly to pay someone to tune. Then we go through almost as much time again after a substantial upgrade, with first tune money gone. Whereas with a tuning box they hold their value pretty well and can be sold to fund the next step. Also a tuning box may give enough of result that no further tuning is required.

After all this is the Tiguan thread and I suspect that only a very small minority would be looking much past the performance a tuning box can provide. There are exceptions of course, a crazy hot Tiguan would be fun to catch out the unsuspecting.


Cheers
Gary

[Sydneykid]

The ECU will record peak numbers like maximum request and actual boost. It’s pretty simple to read these values out and compare with what a stock tune does. I’m not sure if this is exactly what VW is doing but this would be one way to do it.

It's not actually that simple, for example a stock Golf GTi MK6 has boost spikes (snap closed throttle with high exhaust flow) that far exceed what a tuning box would add to the standard boost. So reading "peak boost" would be next to useless without overlaying airflow, rpm and throttle position for each instance. I've seen no evidence of the dealer software being able to do that, notwithstanding that dealer mechanics aren't trained in that level of data interpretation. No doubt if they downloaded the data from the ECU and sent it back to Germany then there is the expertise and software to handle it, but to do it for every warranty claim would be one hell of an expensive exercise. There must be millions of warranty claims a year world wide, it just wouldn't be remotely economical.


Cheers
Gary