No going to the snow in a 162TSI :(

[thommo90210]

Interestingly, I just spoke to the reputable roofcarriersystems.com.au and they warned me off spiders (0mm clearance chains) for summer tyres. They said they are designed for use on winter tyres not summer tyres. Hotham don't allow them due to there not being enough traction when used on summer tyres PLUS their tendency to come off the tyres.

Hmmm
Interesting, seems like roofcarrier systems and Hotham have some sort of invested friendship....
I have messaged Konig, feel free to message them yourself, specifically asking them if there K-summits snow chains are designed for use on winter tyre only, there reply to me was that "there snow chains are designed to be used on both summer and winter tyres"... so you be the judge of that...
These chains are used around the world, accredited awards, and Hotham has a problem with them ???
As for falling off ? They are tethered to a wheel nut, when can they go ???
This scare mongering about surface contact with chain, last time I looked, the diamond pattern had more holes in it, than K-summits... take note how thin a diamond chain is, compared with K-summit chain which is engaged with the tarmac at all times... I used them in snowy/icy conditions a few weeks ago and they worked brilliantly... the K-summit chain actually gets impregnated into your tread pattern, in which you gotta wrestle with it upon removal... so the claimed stories of chain flying off or the other beauty I heard was that Resort Management at Hotham has seen the tyre spin within the chain, I can't believe unless the car owner had slicks or the chains were not fitted correctly...
So I'm beginning to wonder if this roofcarrier systems guy is conveniently pushing his own agenda...
Even Mount Hotham Resort officials name dropped his business and said speak to him, he is all over it... of course he is, when stings yous 2-3 k for new wheels and tyres...
Let me guess, he tried to stitch you up with wheels + winter tyres ???

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[thommo90210]

Hmmm
Interesting, seems like roofcarrier systems and Hotham have some sort of invested friendship....
I have messaged Konig, feel free to message them yourself, specifically asking them if there K-summits snow chains are designed for use on winter tyre only, there reply to me was that "there snow chains are designed to be used on both summer and winter tyres"... so you be the judge of that...
These chains are used around the world, accredited awards, and Hotham has a problem with them ???
As for falling off ? They are tethered to a wheel nut, when can they go ???
This scare mongering about surface contact with chain, last time I looked, the diamond pattern had more holes in it, than K-summits... take note how thin a diamond chain is, compared with K-summit chain which is engaged with the tarmac at all times... I used them in snowy/icy conditions a few weeks ago and they worked brilliantly... the K-summit chain actually gets impregnated into your tread pattern, in which you gotta wrestle with it upon removal... so the claimed stories of chain flying off or the other beauty I heard was that Resort Management at Hotham has seen the tyre spin within the chain, I can't believe unless the car owner had slicks or the chains were not fitted correctly...
So I'm beginning to wonder if this roofcarrier systems guy is conveniently pushing his own agenda...
Even Mount Hotham Resort officials name dropped his business and said speak to him, he is all over it... of course he is, when stings yous 2-3 k for new wheels and tyres...
Let me guess, he tried to stitch you up with wheels + winter tyres ???

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Reply to my message from Konig...

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[PDMJO]

Reply to my message from Konig...

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Allow me to play devil’s advocate here, but maybe it’s not necessarily a question of IF you can fit them, but rather SHOULD you? After all, wouldn’t Konig do whatever they can to also secure a sale? It’s not as if they’d be liable for a mishap which goes directly against the car’s user manual (fitting chains to the 20” rims) right?

[latearrival]

Allow me to play devil’s advocate here, but maybe it’s not necessarily a question of IF you can fit them, but rather SHOULD you? After all, wouldn’t Konig do whatever they can to also secure a sale? It’s not as if they’d be liable for a mishap which goes directly against the car’s user manual (fitting chains to the 20” rims) right?

I came here to say the same thing. Koniq have a vested interest too.

Reading around the web, the same verbatim reasoning seems to be given on various forums. Could all be from different RCH user ids, who knows:

Users have reported two issues when using spider chains.


1) The spider chain will grip to the snow/ice but the tyre can slip or spin inside the spider chain on take off.


2) The spider chain can 'roll off' the tyre when cornering.


This 'roll off' problem is compounded by insufficient grip from the tyre, the camber of the road, the weight and torque of the vehicle and the amount of tread on the tyre that is not covered by the chain. The problem is worse when the vehicle has been parked over night, or longer, at the resort because of the low ambient temperature makes the tyres harder and therefore has even less grip to the chain mesh.


These two problems occur because there is insufficient grip from the tyre to the chain mesh. With spider chains as there is no way the chain mesh can be tightened on to the tyre once they are fitted. The chain mesh is always loose by design to provide the automatic-drive away fitting and easy removal features.


When the grip from the tyre to the chain mesh is increased by using a winter tyre the problems are eliminated and the chain performs well as illustrated in the European performance tests.

It's all very confusing!

[thommo90210]

Allow me to play devil’s advocate here, but maybe it’s not necessarily a question of IF you can fit them, but rather SHOULD you? After all, wouldn’t Konig do whatever they can to also secure a sale? It’s not as if they’d be liable for a mishap which goes directly against the car’s user manual (fitting chains to the 20” rims) right?

I hear you, but without looking at my owners manual, I'm pretty sure it doesn't refrence diamond pattern chains, it does say though, if chains are to be fitted, they should be fitted to the front wheels.
It also states, the 2 wheel size options needed on your car to fit snow chains being 17Jx6.5 ET 38mm and 17J x 7 ET40mm offset...
Bearing in mind, these K-summits chains are perfectly acceptable at mount buller, falls creek, mount baw baw, thredbo and Perisher, New Zealand ski resorts etc etc...
So from a manufacturer point of view, you have fitted chains correctly as per your owners manual to the front wheels and you have made sure the chains you are using are correctly sized for your wheel size.
Just stating it as I see it.
At Hotham, you really only need the chains for a 2-3 kilometer length of road which can get icy + downhill descents, which could get you un stuck... but my 1st hand observation using K-summits in such conditions, worked perfectly fine, the was no need for rally car like sharp turns , nor did I need to do land speed records in those conditions, typically my speeds were between 25-35km/h , once through the troublesome zone, chains were removed and only needed to fit them on morning of departure.... so my new chain adjustment will reflect the tyre size at that time, given that cold climate caused shrinkage and reduced tyre diameter....


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[latearrival]

I've just written to Konig and got an impressively quick reply from customer service. They confirmed the K-Summits can be fitted on summer tyres. They also said that the reported problems (with slipping and rolling off) are due to the mounting not being done correctly. They included detailed mounting instructions but these made little sense to me given I don't own K-Summits yet.

For me this makes the two views reconcilable - Konig saying they work, but Hotham saying they're not allowed. If punters are making more mistakes fitting spider chains (than diamonds) and this is leading to more accidents on the roads, then, regardless of how safe they are (when fitted correctly), they're banned (because they're often not fitted correctly).

[thommo90210]

I've just written to Konig and got an impressively quick reply from customer service. They confirmed the K-Summits can be fitted on summer tyres. They also said that the reported problems (with slipping and rolling off) are due to the mounting not being done correctly. They included detailed mounting instructions but these made little sense to me given I don't own K-Summits yet.

For me this makes the two views reconcilable - Konig saying they work, but Hotham saying they're not allowed. If punters are making more mistakes fitting spider chains (than diamonds) and this is leading to more accidents on the roads, then, regardless of how safe they are (when fitted correctly), they're banned (because they're often not fitted correctly).

"Latearrival" I would add that, yes they can be fitted incorrectly, but so can diamonds chains too... the only difference is, if diamond chains are fitted incorrectly, they will remain on the wheel and just chew up and damage everything else in sight... where as, if K-summits are fitted in correctly, and your not paying attention, then yes, they will work themselves off maybe, I haven't "risk assessed" this scenario to see what it will take for the K-summits to fly off as claimed...
Like I said in my earlier post, I placed them on the wheel, obviously the bottom part of the chain I couldn't get on because of the tarmac, so I drove 50-100m up the road to enable a few revolutions of the wheel to allow the chain to centralize to the tyre, once I did this, I made sure my 4 right angle brackets that link chain to spider arms were hard up against the side wall of the tyre.... once this was achieved, the chain ain't going anywhere... another bit of advice is to get the distributor to size up the correct spacer for the tether bolt and give you a demonstration on how to fit them... this eliminates any issue of incorrect fitting.

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[PDMJO]

I've just written to Konig and got an impressively quick reply from customer service. They confirmed the K-Summits can be fitted on summer tyres. They also said that the reported problems (with slipping and rolling off) are due to the mounting not being done correctly. They included detailed mounting instructions but these made little sense to me given I don't own K-Summits yet.

For me this makes the two views reconcilable - Konig saying they work, but Hotham saying they're not allowed. If punters are making more mistakes fitting spider chains (than diamonds) and this is leading to more accidents on the roads, then, regardless of how safe they are (when fitted correctly), they're banned (because they're often not fitted correctly).

So I suppose this plus what thommo90210 has been saying, it’s another case of the nanny state strikes again?

[thommo90210]

So I suppose this plus what thommo90210 has been saying, it’s another case of the nanny state strikes again?

Definitely nanny state + I don't think that roofcarrier systems guy is helping the cause, he seems to be in too sweet with Hotham !


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[dptiggie]

Bump

Anyone here in SE melb suburbs and up for hiring out their K-55s for a few days here and there? If so, please DM me.