New 2019 Tiguan Fails Autonomous Emergency Braking Tests (30km/h and 50km/h)

**doc_777** · 02-03-2019, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by FastMitch

Do this mean the Tiguan uses 'radar' for its AEB instead of 'optical' ?

yes.

optical on the vw mqb platform is for lane keeping and lane warning

(you can’t measure distance with a single camera, which is why the Subaru system is stereoscopic)

**tigger73** · 02-03-2019, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by FastMitch

Do this mean the Tiguan uses 'radar' for its AEB instead of 'optical' ?

Yes the cheaper systems on the market tend to be optical/camera based systems. This is what is in the Subaru Eyesight system - you'll see the cameras up near the rear view mirror.

VW and other European/premium vehicle manufacturers use a radar system. This will work even when you can't see (like in fog/heavy rain/at night/etc).

Radar systems are generally more expensive than optical systems, however in climates where there is a lot of fog/bad weather these are generally better than optical systems. The sensors can still get fouled by snow etc, however the optical systems will be disabled when vision is poor which is kind of when you need them most.

The radar system probably won't work very well with big balloons. The optical systems will see these as solid objects.

**ArdiL** · 02-03-2019, 08:05 PM

This video just made my day, lovely to watch, couldnt stop laughing

.
The guy in pink with hands in pocket was like expecting the hand of God to intervene for him as he hit the with hands still in pocket. Another non believer I guess

.

**FastMitch** · 02-03-2019, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by tigger73

Yes the cheaper systems on the market tend to be optical/camera based systems. This is what is in the Subaru Eyesight system - you'll see the cameras up near the rear view mirror.

VW and other European/premium vehicle manufacturers use a radar system. This will work even when you can't see (like in fog/heavy rain/at night/etc).

Radar systems are generally more expensive than optical systems, however in climates where there is a lot of fog/bad weather these are generally better than optical systems. The sensors can still get fouled by snow etc, however the optical systems will be disabled when vision is poor which is kind of when you need them most.

The radar system probably won't work very well with big balloons. The optical systems will see these as solid objects.

That makes sense if the VW uses radar, the balloon offer no reflectivity

Curse those non-lead lined balloons

**cameleon72** · 02-03-2019, 08:40 PM

Radar is good for front collision but unfortunately the cheap one used in MQB and VW Tiguan is very unreliable and limited .

Audi and more expensive models use much more precise and longer range 2x front radar. Camera alone is also not good , both technology combined with good Hardware controller is bit better but still not perfect.
Right direction is LIDAR sensors all around all sides of car, with combination with radar and camera like on new Mercedes with real time recognition of red lights cyclist etc...
.Lidar sensors are now vary affordable, I use Lidar for my project built-in special custom drones before couple years when this sensors was vey expensive and rare,. Now cheap Lidars sensors up to 100 meter range real time scan +/- 0.5cm and size of $2 coin can be purchased for around $50 .
When you have say 5x small Lidar sensors on car with specific hardware / SW module you can basically scan real time traffic and map surrounding area in mm precise .
This where car industry going soon and that's Level 5 fully autonomous driving , in maybe 2 years time $100k cars will have this by standard ,soon after Asian car manufactures will bring this very cheap even to cars in 30k Golf cars class range

**tigger73** · 02-03-2019, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by FastMitch

That makes sense if the VW uses radar, the balloon offer no reflectivity

Curse those non-lead lined balloons

Exactly! That's why the test is a load of crap and they should have explained why the VW system wasn't detecting the balloon. If it had been a solid object there I'm almost certain it would have pulled up.

If you look at the braking tests the VW had one of the best braking capability - 2nd in dry braking and 1st in wet braking. Obviously that comes down to tyres also but if the target had been "seen" by the system I'm sure the Tiguan under test would have pulled up.

**Transporter** · 03-03-2019, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by tigger73

Exactly! That's why the test is a load of crap and they should have explained why the VW system wasn't detecting the balloon. If it had been a solid object there I'm almost certain it would have pulled up.

If you look at the braking tests the VW had one of the best braking capability - 2nd in dry braking and 1st in wet braking. Obviously that comes down to tyres also but if the target had been "seen" by the system I'm sure the Tiguan under test would have pulled up.

Yeah, say something positive about a company and you maybe make afternoon news, say something negative and you’ll be remembered almost forever. That’s why the medias like everything negative, chasing the fame, even if it’s sometimes short lived, it always stays in headlines much longer than a good news. You’ll hardly see people passing on a good news or respond to it, while they troll about the negative and it even doesn’t have to be true or properly tested and explained. Here is an example, it was posted almost at the same time as this thread The death of diesel (LOL)

**FastMitch** · 03-03-2019, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by tigger73

Exactly! That's why the test is a load of crap and they should have explained why the VW system wasn't detecting the balloon. If it had been a solid object there I'm almost certain it would have pulled up.

If you look at the braking tests the VW had one of the best braking capability - 2nd in dry braking and 1st in wet braking. Obviously that comes down to tyres also but if the target had been "seen" by the system I'm sure the Tiguan under test would have pulled up.

"The Tiguan proves an enigma. It fails its first 30km/h run by completely ignoring the target, though on its second attempt, it sparks the collision warning and partially brakes … but still collides. A third attempt sees no response at 30km/h, however a final retest later in the day sees it stop before impact, but only at 30km/h."

I agree the breaking tests were excellent, but on re-reading, why would a 2nd and final test trigger the AEB for a balloon if its a radar system ?

Mods: Why was this moved to 'General' section when its specifically about the Tiguan ?

**doc_777** · 03-03-2019, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by tigger73

Exactly! That's why the test is a load of crap and they should have explained why the VW system wasn't detecting the balloon. If it had been a solid object there I'm almost certain it would have pulled up.

If you look at the braking tests the VW had one of the best braking capability - 2nd in dry braking and 1st in wet braking. Obviously that comes down to tyres also but if the target had been "seen" by the system I'm sure the Tiguan under test would have pulled up.

which is probably why ancap don’t test aeb...

manufacturers get points added to their score for having it, but ancap have no testing method. (despite the presence of the ancap-badged balloon in the article).

**FastMitch** · 03-03-2019, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by doc_777

which is probably why ancap don’t test aeb...

manufacturers get points added to their score for having it, but ancap have no testing method. (despite the presence of the ancap-badged balloon in the article).

Isn't this the ANCAP AEB Test Procedures ?

https://www.ancap.com.au/publication...ems-v2-0-1.pdf